[nagdu] when is a guide not a guide
Ann Edie
annedie at nycap.rr.com
Sun Jun 14 17:51:25 UTC 2009
Thanks, Marion, I agree with you completely, and you stated the situation
very clearly.
Best,
Ann
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] when is a guide not a guide
> Ann,
> In my unprofessional opinion, it is not the insurance companies who
> make these rules that limit our access; rather, it is the entity that uses
> the insurance company as a scapegoat to deny our access. The principle of
> supremacy is that no body may make a law or policy that is in conflict
> with a higher authority. This includes not only lower levels of
> governments, but companies, as well. An insurance company cannot make a
> policy or rule that is in conflict with the law unless there is actuarial
> evidence to support such a policy. For instance, there is evidence that
> males under the age of 25 are more likely to be involved in car crashes
> than other groups. For this reason, such males are charged more for their
> auto insurance.
> If I were asked to sign a special release, I would refuse to do so. If
> signing the form were to continue to be a prerequisite for participating
> in a service or benefit, I would ask that this be so stated on the release
> and that I get a copy of the release. I would then use this copy as
> evidence that I was discriminated against when filing my complaint with
> the DOJ.
>
> Fraternally,
> Marion
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 10:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] when is a guide not a guide
>
>
>> Hi, All,
>>
>> Sorry, in my previous message, I inadvertently replied to the wrong list.
>> But perhaps the legal minds here would be able to address the question of
>> insurance companies making rules which limit our access to public places
>> with our assistance animals or just on the basis of our blindness.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ann
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ann Edie
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 10:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: when is a guide not a guide
>>
>>
>> It really pushes my buttons when insurance companies get to decide what
>> a person can or cannot do in this country! Last I heard, it was Congress
>> which legislates in the USA.
>>
>> I have certainly had run-ins with insurance companies before. like when
>> I want to go horseback riding at a place, and they tell me that I have to
>> be on a lead rope, or I can't ride at all, or I have to sign a different
>> release form--all because I am a member of a minority, a person with a
>> disability. It's no different, in my opinion, and perhaps even worse,
>> than when the restaurant tells someone they can't enter the restaurant
>> with a guide dog because the Health Department won't allow it, or when a
>> taxi driver tells someone he can't take them in his cab because his
>> religion says dogs are unclean. As far as I know, it is Congress that
>> sets Civil Rights policy in this country, and all these other
>> "authorities are just talking through their hats.
>>
>> I hope the legal minds on this list can clarify this point.
>>
>> Best,
>> Ann
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 7:18 PM
>> Subject: RE: when is a guide not a guide
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jenine, each year as a hospice volunteer (and mia is one also) I need
>> to
>> present certification that she has had her rabies shots. I was told
>> that
>> this is required of any dog going into the building at
>>
>> The request of the insurance company.
>>
>> From: GDUI-Friends at yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:GDUI-Friends at yahoogroups.com] On
>> Behalf Of Jenine Stanley
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:23 AM
>> To: 'Lenny McHugh'; 'gdui-friends'
>> Subject: RE: [GDUI-Friends] when is a guide not a guide
>>
>> Lenny,
>>
>> Not to argue here as your own personal choices as to your dog's status
>> and
>> how you wished to handle this situation are just that, but legally,
>> here's
>> what I know.
>>
>> Your dog, if you state that it is a service animal, is a service
>> animal all
>> the time, regardless of whether you are holding its harness handle, or
>> even
>> whether it is wearing a harness or not. Under the ADA, and this was
>> explained to us in a presentation at GDUI oh, nearly 10 years ago now,
>> that
>> even if your dog is walking at heel and you are using sighted guide,
>> that
>> dog is still a service animal and you are legally entitled to all
>> rights and
>> privileges due someone accompanied by said service animal.
>>
>> Someone else could come along wishing access to this facility and
>> legally
>> she could certainly be challenged even if the dog was taken out of
>> harness.
>> The reason for this is that there is an assumption, rightly or
>> wrongly, that
>> people who use service animals do take better care of them an insure
>> that
>> all their vaccines are current. It's why we don't have to have health
>> certificates when we fly in the continental US.
>>
>> Now, that said, there may be some provision in Pennsylvania law that
>> addresses service animals in these types of facilities, under the
>> requirement to see a current Rabies vaccine certificate.
>>
>> I wonder, would a tag due? I don't normally carry my dog's Rabies
>> certificate with me. Maybe I should?
>>
>> I can understand if the facility is closed to the public and you must
>> make
>> an appointment to come in.
>>
>> This is the case for many guide dog school campuses. Only small parts
>> are
>> open to the public and if you wish to bring even a service animal into
>> the
>> parts not open to the public and you make an appointment, the school
>> can't
>> deny you but they can have certain qualifications you need to follow.
>> These
>> might include providing proof of vaccination.
>>
>> So, though I understand your position, legally, someone could argue
>> just the
>> opposite.
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
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