[nagdu] Labrador-Poodle cross

Mon Mar 2 20:30:57 UTC 2009

Tami,

Oh how I wish I had a dollar for everytime I have been asked what kind of 
dog Syd is.  The most clever comment regarding Sydney was, "I never saw a 
seeing eye hound before!"  It was really a nice change when my next dog was 
a black lab; I didn't get that question any longer.  Syd was a great first 
guide - he trained me well; however, he's very needy and I don't want that 
trait in my next dog.  In fact, so needy he's over bugging Marion for 
attention as I type.  A friend of mine had two standard poodles, and they 
were great dogs, but they were needy as well.  Different circumstances for 
me warrants a dog with a more laid back temperment.

Merry
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Labrador-Poodle cross

> Merry,
>
> The first time I had Mitzi clipped, I had them give her an all over short
> cut, just so I could find out what was under all those curls.  What was
> under the curls was a black, velvet-coated Viszla!  The lines are really
> almost identical.  I wonder if, sometime in the dim and distant past, the
> two breeds are related?  There do seem to be a lot of similarities of
> temperament, as well.
>
> I would keep on getting Mitzi done that way, since I really love those
> lines.  But I now keep a "hint of poodle" in her cut just so people don't
> come running to ask what kind of dog she is.  /smile/  I did once find
> myself having a debate in the corner store on the subject with a kindly 
> old
> gentlemen who was determined to correct my misinformation on the subject,
> since my dog was so clearly not a poodle.  /smile/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Merry Schoch
> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:31 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Labrador-Poodle cross
>
> Jenine,
>
> You just described my Viszla.  He was absolutely brillant (ask Deanna). 
> She
>
> said during his training she only had to show him something one time.  My
> theory about his breakdown is that he was hyper alert, was spooked and 
> this
> only increased no matter how much I worked with him on it.  His love for 
> me,
>
> at 12 1/2, is still magnificent.  I told him the other day that I was very
> happy that he felt well enough to be in the kitchen under my feet, but I
> wished he'd leave.  Today, I put a jacket on him and took him to Walgreens
> to get him some medicine for his acid reflux.  He was so excited to go,
> Marion needed to help me put the jacket on him.  He dove into the harness,
> although he didn't want me to work him - so I just heeled him.  On the way
> back he stumbled a few times, but bless him. he kept his ears perked up 
> and
> his stub a waggin'.  He certainly has spirit. He was a great guide for 4 
> 1/2
>
> years; however, he broke my heart when he stopped working and I wouldn't
> ever want another Viszla.
>
> Just to show how devoted he is, he just laid on the floor next to my desk
> and he hates the floor.  He is a coach and bed dog.
>
> Anyway, didn't mean for this to get so wordy.
>
> Have a great day,
> Merry
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 8:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Labrador-Poodle cross
>
>
>> Hello Haben,
>>
>> I have worked with a Lab/Poodle cross from the Guide Dog Foundation. 
>> First
>> though I must tell you that currently, the Foundation is not breeding any
>> Lab/Poodle crosses. We may have a few still coming up through training 
>> but
>> the numbers are very few indeed and someone needs, at this time, a
>> demonstrated allergy situation, i.e., personal or family allergy, to even
>> be
>> considered for one.
>>
>> We continue to breed Standard Poodles but our waiting list to receive one
>> is
>> over a year long and again, demonstrated allergy situations merit first
>> choice for Poodles.
>>
>> The Lab/Poodle varies widely in everything about itself from coat to
>> temperament to allergic factors. Lab/Poodles, which I'll call LPs for
>> short,
>> have a mix of fur, which grows to a set length, and hair, which grows
>> continuously. Some LPs look like Poodles with curls or relaxed curls 
>> while
>> others look more like Labs with longer, sort of frizzy coats. The Coats
>> have
>> a unique texture though, wiry is probably the best description.
>>
>> Poodles are generally very alert dogs and this alertness can carry over
>> into
>> the LP, causing some to be hyper alert, watching everything and reacting
>> accordingly.
>>
>> There are some outstanding LPs out there, obviously or the cross would 
>> not
>> have been considered for guide work, but there are equally many LPs who
>> start out perfectly fine and become noise sensitive, suspicious, overly
>> protective, have confinement issues  and even develop aggression toward
>> other dogs or people. I say this because these dogs can break your heart.
>> They are brilliant, have fun personalities and can do some incredible
>> guide
>> work, but they are rather fragile in terms of temperament. Mine was
>> retired
>> after 3 years due to increasing confinement issues, i.e., she could not
>> stand to be under things or in small spaces and if forced to be, she 
>> would
>> become even more suspicious, growling at any other dog that came near 
>> her.
>> She also began to snap at other dogs, something I personally find to be
>> unacceptable in a guide dog no matter what the reason.
>>
>> The Lab/Poodle is a very complex dog, more so I think than either of the
>> breeds that go into it because you never quite know what you're going to
>> get. When it's good, it's incredible and when it's bad, it's, well,
>> incredibly bad.
>>
>> Most of the schools around the world, including the one in Australia 
>> where
>> the breed was started, no longer use the LP due to its unpredictability. 
>> I
>> am not sure the Foundation will resume using them. We simply don't know 
>> at
>> this point. We are quite pleased with the Poodle lines we have now, and
>> our
>> Labs are our bread and butter, as they are at most schools, but the
>> combination has proven costly in terms of training, retraining, and the
>> emotional tole it takes on handlers when having to retire the dogs. I
>> don't
>> know the status of the LP at the other schools who have used them here in
>> the US, Guide Dogs of the Desert and Guide Dogs of America. If I was
>> interested in getting one, I'd definitely call and talk with their
>> training
>> departments.
>>
>> It was my observation that though my LP might have been less allergy
>> producing, having a different dander, this did not lessen the resistance
>> to
>> her if people were going to resist her.
>>
>> Another factor of a Poodle or LP is that they do produce a certain odor
>> that
>> one must monitor. It's best described as dirty socks. It's just a matter
>> of
>> brushing and sometimes using a coat conditioner or dry shampoo to remove
>> excess oils from the coat, but it's there in some/most LPs and Poodles
>> from
>> time to time. Of course, most of our dogs can have a particular doggie
>> odor
>> from time to time. The Poodle odor is just different.
>>
>>
>> As for grooming/clipping, this too depends on the coat. I've seen LPs 
>> with
>> the wavier coat who just need it trimmed every 3 to 4 months while mine
>> needed a full clip every 2 months unless I let her grow out in winter. 
>> She
>> still needed her face clipped every 6 weeks or so. This ran me between 
>> $40
>> and $60 depending on where I went. My girl adored being bathed and 
>> clipped
>> but I made sure the groomers knew LPs. Many LPs have beards that also
>> require a lot of care to keep clean and trimmed neatly. They have longer
>> hair that grows not only on the outer flaps of their ears, sometimes
>> trailing in food, water and every other substance with which they come in
>> contact, but inside their ears as well. This hair must be plucked and
>> trimmed. The plucking from inside, I'm told, is painless. My girl didn't
>> have any hair inside her ears but the hair on the outside grew quite
>> quickly
>> and needed to be managed.
>>
>> Btw, the shedding myth is just that, a myth. My LP shed like crazy. Some
>> do,
>> some shed very little, but most do shed. It's only when breeding
>> successive
>> generations of the cross that the shedding goes away. Then other issues
>> begin to surface though as the Australians discovered when trying this,
>> and
>> they ended up dropping the cross.
>>
>> So, I hate to be a wet blanket, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for an LP
>> unless you find one and have it privately trained or owner trained.
>>
>>
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