[nagdu] occupaws ownership policy

Tue Mar 3 02:22:34 UTC 2009

Hi Angie,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this issue.  Personally, I 
don't mind the prospect of consulting a third party to make 
decisions about Gilbert, but you bring up a good point that in 
some cases schools retaining ownership can create some hardship.
In answer to your question about placing Gilbert when he is 
retired, ownership will officially transfer to me when he 
retires.  I have the option of keeping him, (which I fully intend 
to do unless I have to live in a situation where only working 
service dogs are allowed), or determining who he is placed with.
As far as what happens to Gilbert if the worst happened, Gilbert 
could be taken away from my family and reissued if he was young, 
and still able to work.  But if Occupaws determined that he could 
no longer work, or was too old to reissue, I think that my family 
would get to keep him.
One thing that I noticed during my training, and when I attended 
some Occupaws fundraisers, is that everyone in the organization, 
including the puppy raisers were extremely compassionate.  I'm 
pretty certain that if the worst happened, they would make their 
decisions with the best interests of Gilbert, and my family in 
mind.
Allison and Gilbert

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com
>To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:52:50 -0500
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] occupaws ownership policy

>Hi Allison,

>Thanks for your post.  I don't mean to minimize the concerns that 
prompt some schools to retain ownership, but there are ways to 
remove a dog from an abusive situation, whether it is a guide dog 
or a pet.

>I personally am glad to have ownership of my dog because I know 
that at the end of the day, I can make important decisions about 
her future without consulting a third party.  I don't mean to 
imply that I would never ask the school's advice.  I just think 
that there are situations in which I, as the handler, know much 
more about the individual dog than the most well-intentioned 
staff of my school, who might not have interacted with her for 
some time.

>Will you be able to place Gilbert when he retires? Most schools 
do allow the grad to do this, even if they retain ownership; but 
in some situations, the graduates' wishes are not respected.  
And, if the worst should happen, would your family have any say 
in what happens to Gilbert? It is comforting to me to know that 
if something happened to me, the people who are most prominent in 
Yani's recent memories would be able to make decisions concerning 
her future.  I know of an instance in which a handler was killed 
when s/he was struck by a car.  This person's family hoped tthat 
the guide dog could be reissued.  They wanted to adopt the dog if 
it could not be reissued.  As it happened, the dog was unable to 
work after the accident.  But because it had been with the 
handler for less than the time provided for in the school's 
policy, the dog was offered to its raisers instead of the 
handler's family.  This created an additional source of grief for 
the family.

>I could cite other instances where handlers who did not own their 
dogs encountered problems when they and the school disagreed 
about what should happen.  In all of the instances I'm thinking 
of, all parties agreed that the dogs were unable to continue 
working.

>These are a few of the reasons why I am glad to own my dog.

>Best,

>Angie

>Sent from my Nokia N82.

>-original message-
>Subject: [nagdu] occupaws ownership policy
>From: Allison Nastoff <anastoff at wi.rr.com
>Date: 02/26/2009 12:07 AM

>Hi List,
>I have been reading your discussion about ownership policies at
>the various schools, but I have a different perspective.
>I received my dog from Occupaws, and the policy at Occupaws is
>that they technically own the dog until he is retired.  My
>trainer said the reason for this policy was liability.  While it
>is rare, unfortunately some people do mistreat their dogs, or do
>not make wise judgements about when it is time to retire them,
>and the decision of Occupaws to maintain ownership of the dog is
>simply a precaution.  At first when I learned of this policy, I
>was disappointed.  But I soon realized that while Occupaws has
>legal ownership of him, in every other regard, he is my dog.
>Occupaws has contacted me every couple of months to make sure
>things are working out, but they have never interfered in any
>way.
>Personally, I support this precautionary measure.  In the rare
>case that a dog is mistreated, it would not be fair to the dog,
>or to another handler who would appreciate this dog and take good
>care of him, if the school gave full ownership to a handler, and
>then was powerless to reclaim the dog from a handler if it came
>to the school's attention that there is a problem.
>I realize that some of you will be furious with me for saying
>this, but it is my personal opinion.  The fact that I technically
>don't own my dog has not prevented me from bonding with him, or
>interfered with our work as a team.  I think that legal ownership
>is just a technicality, and that emotional ownership is what
>really matters.
>Allison and Gilbert

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