[nagdu] Michael's Question
Michael Hingson
info at michaelhingson.com
Tue May 19 18:51:15 UTC 2009
Hi Tami,
Thanks for your contribution. I disagree that "a certain distrust of the
schools when
it comes to our dogs is not only natural but healthy". I agree that some
school staff deserve our mistrust. Also some school philosophies have been
negative toward blind persons.
I have seen an inordinate amount of negativity toward schools on various
guide dog lists. I cannot help but wonder if we are part of the problem.
Are we looking for issues when they are not there? Do we, for example,
distrust schools and universities we attend? I think not in the way it
appears many seem to feel about guide dog schools.
Rather than making general statements we should be specific with reasons we
don't trust guide dog schools. Also, we need to examine what is real and
relevant and what is personal and not a real cause for distrust.
If we are going to create a more trusting and positive attitude with schools
we first need to determine the real problem.
The Michael Hingson Group
“Speaking with Vision”
Michael Hingson, President
(415) 827-4084
info at michaelhingson.com
www.michaelhingson.com
for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:24 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Michael's Question
Michael,
This is a great discussion. As an owner trainer, I don't have a good story
for you. However, thinking academically about the issue of intimidation and
having dealt with people who are in the business of "helping" the blind,
knowing we all face such behavior and attitudes in those who often hold
control over our access to resources, a certain distrust of the schools when
it comes to our dogs is not only natural but healthy. I know how I feel
when someone grabs my cane -- mostly from going to a state living skills
program, where grabbing a student forcibly was clearly acceptable behavior,
especially if the student does not "feel" the difference between two very
different surfaces to the teacher's satisfaction. If I felt someone of that
ilk had any ability to interfere with my relationship with my dog, I would
do everything I could to limit my contact with them.
That's all strictly subjective and emotional, but even my one home interview
with a guide dog school before my health tanked from the injuries I received
at the aforementioned living skills program pushed me pretty far in the
direction of owner training even my very first guide dog.
The letter I received from them gave an even worse impression in their
reasons given for turning me down. My vision is so great that I don't need
a dog. And I had a load of laundry on the floor waiting to go downstairs to
the wash, which can kill a dog.
So as soon as I had treatment enough to at least get back on my feet, I got
my own dang dog, watched her long enough to observe that she had "the right
stuff" and got to training. She has not suffered a laundry-related fatality
yet. /smile/
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of mhingson
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:33 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Michael's Question
Angie,
You have graphically demonstrated one thing which seems many schools are
guilty of doing. Often the schools seem to be much more concerned about the
"best interest" of the dog and not either of the student or grad or the team
as a whole. I have seen this many times.
Of course, the schools were usually formed by people who were and are dog
centric. The fact is that the schools should focus more on team formation
and growth. There is little doubt that a lot of growth is needed in
addressing blindness issues at most guide schools. Even so, my basic
question remains concerning what is intimidation and abuse and what is
simple lack of education or common sense?
The Michael Hingson Group
“Speaking with Vision”
Michael Hingson, President
(415) 827-4084
info at michaelhingson.com
www.michaelhingson.com
for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Angie Matney
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 12:26 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: [nagdu] Michael's Question
Hello everyone,
This is sort of on point to the issue Michael mentioned. A few years ago, I
wanted to adopt a friend's retired guide. The school policy at that time was
that, no matter who owned the dog, the graduate could choose the dog's
retirement home if they had been partnered with the dog for over a year. In
this case, the graduate had not elected to apply for ownership of the dog.
The dog was retired at age four because of glaucoma. My friend contacted the
school and asked that the dog be placed with me. I was then contacted by
someone on staff at the school. This individual indicated that a veterinary
nurse had expressed an interest in possibly adopting the dog. (Apparently,
the nurse had not firmly committed to adopt the dog.) This was presented to
me as an option that had only recently become available. The school staff
person asked me if I "cared enough" to let the school find a "better" home
for this dog.
Initially, I was speechless. I thought then, and still do believe, that this
language was manipulative and uncalled-for. I can only assume that the staff
member really believed he was acting in the dog's best interest.
When I told the employee that I believed I would be able to adequately care
for the dog, I was reminded that the school would not provide any veterinary
stipend as they did for my current working guide, since this was a retired
guide dog. I explained that I knew this and that I was prepared to assume
all responsibility for the dog's medical treatment.
The employee then suggested that the dog would be better off with a family
and not with a single person. "She should be where someone will always be
there for her." I explained that I would be working from home. He continued
to argue that she would be better off if she lived where "someone would
always be there for her." I asked him how he knew this would be the case
with the other adoptive placement. When he asked what I meant, I pointed out
that in many families, both parents work, and the kids are away at school
all day. Did he know for sure that someone would be with this dog throughout
the day? He confessed that he did not know this. Further, he admitted that
they had no character references on this nurse. The school had three
character references for me from the time when I had applied to get a dog
from them. They had also *given* me one of their dogs, and had presumably
taught me what I would need to know about taking care of a dog.
My theory is that this individual was concerned because the dog needed eye
drops administered twice a day. I believe he was concerned that I would not
be able to administer this medication. He was possibly also concerned that I
would not notice changes that would indicate that her glaucoma had gotten
worse. Again, this is only my belief, but it is the only logical
explanation. As I said, I was working from home at the time, the school had
plenty of information concerning my fitness to care for a dog, and my friend
had asked that I adopt the dog.
During the course of our conversation, the staff member brought up the vet
stipend issue several more times. Finally, in frustration, I asked if he
needed to know my salary, since he seemed to believe that I would be
expecting the school to pay for the dog's medical care. He said that of
course, he did not need to know this.
We closed our conversation with an agreement that he would try to find out
if someone would indeed be at home with the dog during the day and that we
would talk more later.
I then called my friend. I told her that the school had suggested the
veterinary nurse and that they felt this would be the best placement for the
dog. She surprised me by telling me that the school had already discussed
this possibility with her. She had said that she still wanted the dog to
live with me.
So after the graduate had expressly indicated that she wanted the dog to
live with me and*not* with someone she didn't know, someone from the school
then called me and asked if I "cared enough" to let the school find a better
home for this dog.
After I spoke with my friend, I left a voicemaiol with the staff member who
had contacted me. I told him that if I heard directly from my friend that
she had changed her mind and wanted the dog to live with the nurse, I would
support her completely. I went on to say that I believed my friend had the
right to choose where her dog should live, and that I would not withdraw my
offer to take the dog unless my friend directly spoke with me and told me
this was what she wanted.
I adopted the dog, and she lived with me for several years. Regrettably,
when my circumstances changed, I knew I would not be able to keep her. I
struggled for a long time with feelings of inadequacy concerning this. I did
not want to believe that this school employee had been right all along.
But I have come to understand that he *wasn't* right. My life circumstances
changed in a way that I could not possibly have foreseen at the time I took
the dog (I went to law school and lived in on-campus housing). This could
happen to *anybody.* Additionally, I found a *wonderful* home for the dog
with a good friend. In fact, I am staying with this friend while I study for
the Bar. The dog I mentioned (who is doing remarkably well, by the way) just
ccame over for some pets and scritches while I was writing this email. I do
not believe I short-changed the dog in any way.
I have left the name of the school out of this email. I'm sure all of you
know the school I'm referring to. Frankly, I left the name out because this
list does have a public archive, and while I have decided that I am OK with
posting this here, I don't think I want it to come up when the school is
googled.
Best,
Angie
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