[nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison

Wed May 27 20:51:26 UTC 2009

Angie, 
I totally agree with this. 
I wasn't suggesting you have this discussion now, because you are right,
you will probably gett he answer you want later on, just that it is a
discussion worth having at some point in the future. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:52 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison

Hi Rebecca,

In my case, I think it's pretty safe to say that there *is* no policy,
since the firm hasn't dealt with this situation before. Also, it is
possible that I will make partner before Yani retires (though her total
working life would then be about ten years). Hopefully, I will at least
be a senior-level associate. If I were to ask the firm now what they
would do if my dog needed to retire, the answer might be different than
if I asked later on. The firm knows I work with dogs. I worked there
with Glaze and then with Yani, and I have talked to some of the partners
about what is involved in retiring a guide dog. I believe they will work
with me when it is time to retire Yani.
But since this is not a situation for which they have a set policy, and
since it might not happen for another six to eight years, I don't plan
on asking them right now.

Another factor is that sometimes, individuals are more likely to say
"no"'
when confronted with an abstract hypothetical or with something that
might not happen for eight years. When they are faced with a long-time
employee who needs an accommodation in a particular, defined instance,
they might be more likely to say yes. That is just based on my own
observations of human nature. (grin)

Re: Counting a guide dog as workplace training: This is certainly a
possibility. I ran into similar situations when I was a VR counselor and
someone wanted time off for adjustment-to-blindness training. In one
case, a federal agency was reluctant to consider any of the training as
"workplace"
training, which meant the individual would not be paid while s/he was
receiving training. People could certainly make a case for this
classification to their employers . I would guess that some have done so
successfully.

Angie

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 10:35 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison

Angie, and list,
Why not find out what the policy is now so you can change it at a time
when you aren't going through the emotions of saying good-bye and
gearing up for the new dog? 
This is assumming that you'll be at the same firm when Yani does retire.

It also has occurred  to me that guide dog training could be accounted
for as workplace training. 
For example, I apply my systems engineering training both at work and
also at home. Work paid for this training. 
If one takes the attitude that a guide dog increases productivity,
couldn't a good case be made for the time to get one counting as
training? 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 5:52 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison

Hi Wayne,

In Virginia, the Department for the Blind is a separate state agency. I
never used their "guide dog leave" while I was there. My next job will
be for a private employer. I hope I don't have to find out what their
policy will be for a very long time.

Angie with Yani

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Wayne Merritt
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:36 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison

If the department for the blind is under an umbrella agency, like Health
and Human Services, for your state, then it might apply to other
agencies with in the state. If it's a separate agency though, I'm
speculating here, perhaps not. Worth checking into.

Wayne

On 5/21/09, Angie Matney <angie.matney at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Wayne,
>
> Our Department for the Blind has such a policy, but I don't know if it

> is applicable to other state agencies or not. I have seen it in the 
> employee policy manual.
>
> Angie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Wayne Merritt
> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 2:47 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>
> If you work for the state or other form of government, there may be 
> built in leave categories that will cover part or all of your training

> time at a guide dog school. As a state worker in Texas, there are such

> codes that while may not cover the whole time, they did cover 2 weeks 
> of my over all time. You may have to dig down for these different 
> allowances or perhaps talk to someone specific in your HR department, 
> but it can be done.
>
> Wayne
>
> On 5/20/09, Angie Matney <angie.matney at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Rebecca,
>>
>> I think that legislation making it easier for people to spend weeks 
>> away from school or their jobs would be met with a great deal of
opposition.
In
>> many instances, the extra time would possibly constitute an undue
hardship
>> to an employer or a fundamental alteration to a program. I think many

>> schools are responding with different traning models that recognize 
>> that, largely as a result of the schools' own efforts in providing 
>> mobility
aids
>> to blind people, it is not as feasible for every student to spend 
>> weeks
> and
>> weeks away from home today as it once was.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
>> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 5:00 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>>
>> I'm curious if schools are moving away from a model that requires 
>> students to be away from work, school and family for a month.
>> Or, is legislation being done to make it easier for people going to 
>> guide dog class  to get the time they need?
>> Honestly, the legislation might be easier to create and implement as 
>> well as carry out.If such work has not been done on either front, why

>> not?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Angie Matney
>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:00 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>>
>> Hi Tina,
>>
>> Thanks. I take the bar at the end of July. As far as scheduling went,

>> I was very lucky. I asked Seeing Eye for a January class date. Two 
>> weeks of that class took place over the law school's Holiday break. I

>> actually trained in January with both my guides. I hope that I can 
>> get my net one sometime around April, 2016! (grin)
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of tina thomas
>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 10:44 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>>
>>
>> Congratulations Angie. So when do you take the BAR exam? Just a side 
>> note, I had to take the quarter off to go and train with Dixie. Being

>> that my school is on the quarter system, I could not be gone for a 
>> month.
>> Tina
>>
>> "Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own 
>> instead of someone else's."
>> - Billy Wilder
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Angie Matney
>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:23 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>>
>> Tina,
>>
>> I'm jealous! But I did have to get back because of school. (And on a 
>> positive note, school is over! I graduated yesterday!) Most of my 
>> training with Yani happened during my break, and I only missed one 
>> week of class. But I'll bet you had a great training experience!
>>
>> Angie with Yani
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of tina thomas
>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:18 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>>
>> Hey Angie-  How could I not stay. Pete Jackson one on one for one
week.
>> It was very cool
>>
>>
>> "Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own 
>> instead of someone else's."
>> - Billy Wilder
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Angie Matney
>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 4:14 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>>
>> Hey Tina,
>>
>> In my group, there were two Seeing Eye retrains, a first-time 
>> guide-dog handler, and me. I was very, very tempted to stay the extra

>> week, but I needed to get back to class. The first-timer in our group

>> had the instructor all to himself for that last week, too. He said it

>> was a great opportunity.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of tina thomas
>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 5:46 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>>
>> >From what I understand, the instructor to student racial has changed
>>>over
>> the years, and students are receiving more individualized
instruction.
>> When I attended the Seeing Eye back in Feb, there were four of us in 
>> my group.
>> All but me had received from the Eye prior, So the last week of 
>> class, I had the instructor to myself.
>> Tina
>>
>>
>> "Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own 
>> instead of someone else's."
>> - Billy Wilder
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Haben Girma
>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:30 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>>
>>
>> Angie, that's really interesting. I would have actually assume that 
>> training would be more individualized at GEB since GEB has a smaller 
>> class size and a smaller student to instructor ratio.
>>
>> Haben
>>
>> Angie Matney wrote:
>>> Hi Tami,
>>>
>>> The training at TSE is similar. I obviously can't compare it to GEB,

>>> but I will say that what I liked about TSE was that it was very 
>>> individualized. At my first school, all students went into the city 
>>> on
>>
>>> the same day. At TSE, we went in groups. I only went to NYC once, 
>>> but other students went more often, depending on their needs. Maybe 
>>> Ann or
>>
>>> another GEB grad could speak to scheduling at GEB.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf Of Ann Chiappetta
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:33 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>>>
>>> Hi Tammy;
>>> I'm a recent GEB grad and I believe I've gotten great urban
training.
>>> We were out five days a week for three weeks in downtown White 
>>> Plains,
>>
>>> NY, a busy city with plenty of obstacles, like rounded sidewalk 
>>> ramps
>>
>>> buses,,complicated crossings,  scaffolding, and people and other 
>>> dogs.We trained in NYC only one day but it was great as I got 
>>> train/subway training and felt the safest I've felt in the subway 
>>> since
>> losing my sight.
>>>
>>> I live in a suburban/urban setting and Verona's city skills are spot

>>> on. We don't have much need for country walking so I make sure I 
>>> take her on side streets just to keep her skills up. But her 
>>> shorelining skills are good, too.
>>> Hope that helps.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:26 AM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hey, all.  A friend was asking me some questions about guide dog 
>>>> schools, and I had no clue to the answers, so I thought I would
ask.
>>>> She wanted to know how Guiding Eyes and TSE compare when it comes 
>>>> to urban training for both dog and handler, since both are near
NYC.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone been to both schools?  How would you compare the two?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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