[nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness
Marion & Martin
swampfox1833 at verizon.net
Tue Oct 27 19:16:44 UTC 2009
Beverly,
You ask a good question. The answer is very simple: You ask! The
requirement of a harness is a myth that is promulgated by some of the guide
dog schools. Not all service animals wear a harness and the ADA makes no
mention of any such requirement. Although some state laws do require
harnesses and documentation/identification, such requirements are
unenforceable, as to make such a requirement would violate the individuals
rights under Federal law. According to the Department of Justice, an entity
may ask if a person is disabled (only qualified individuals with a
disability have the right to be accompanied by a service animal), but may
not ask about the nature of the disability. An entity may also ask if the
animal is a service animal, how the animal was trained, and what tasks the
animal performs, but may not ask for a demonstration of these tasks. (How
would someone with a seizure disorder, for example, demonstrate the tasks
the animal performs without having a seizure?) Furthermore, the entity has
the right to refuse to allow access to a person accompanied by a service
animal if it can be demonstrated that the presence of the service animal
poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others that cannot be
eliminated by a modification of policies, practices, or procedures or if the
animal is out of control and the handler does not take action to control the
animal. In such cases in which the animal is not allowed to accompany the
person with a disability, the entity must allow the person access without
the animal being present.
Whether a guide dog is in harness or not, the dog is still a service
animal, as defined by the ADA. Therefore, under such circumstances as
staying in a hotel and taking the dog out for relief, one may not have the
dog in harness. Similarly, if you are on a trip on an over-the-road bus or
in a taxicab, it may be more comfortable for the dog to not wear its
harness. Under such circumstances, you are still protected by the ADA!
I hope this is helpful to you. If you or anyone else would like to
discuss this further, this list is the perfect place to do so!
fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beverly Hunter" <bhunter at nfbga.org>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness
> If you go inside a store with your dog out of harnass but there is a sign
> that states no dogs allowed, how do you differentiate between a guide dog
> and a pet if there is no harnass?
>
> Beverly Hunter, Outreach Manager
> Georgia NFB-NEWSLINE(R)
> The Georgia Audible Universal Access Service
>
> National Federation of the Blind of Georgia
> "Everyday People, Living Life Everyday"
>
> 315 West Ponce de Leon Avenue
> Suite 1020
> Decatur, Georgia 30030
>
> (404) 371-1000 ext. 23 (Voice)
> (404) 432-5929 (cell)
> (404) 371-1002 (Fax)
> (866) 316-3242 (Toll Free)
> bhunter at nfbga.org
>
>
> Have you invested in braille literacy? Go to www.braille.org and buy
> a Louis Braille Commemorative coin today.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 3:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness
>
>
>> Cindy,
>> The Americans with Disabilities Act provides that any disabled person
>> has the right to be accompanied by a service animal in any place the
>> public is invited. A service animal is defined as any animal
>> "individually trained to perform tasks for people with disabilities". The
>> DOJ specifically states that no documentation or special identification
>> can be required of a person accompanied by a service animal. The harness
>> does not make the animal a service animal, its training does. Individuals
>> who are deaf who use a service animal to signal sounds or a person who
>> uses a wheelchair and a service animal to retrieve dropped items do not
>> employ harnesses. Furthermore, the DOJ provides that the only reason to
>> exclude a service animal is if doing so would cause a direct threat to
>> the health or safety of others that cannot be mitigated by a modification
>> of policies, practices, and procedures, or if the animal is out of
>> control and the handler does not take effective action to control the
>> animal.
>> Though there are some state laws that require special identification
>> or that the animal is in harness, such local statutes are unenforceable
>> under the Principle of Supremacy, as no level of government may make a
>> law that is more restrictive than that of any level above it. I regularly
>> take my dog on walks with me out of harness using my white cane and, if I
>> am out and wish to stop into a store, restaurant, or bar, I have the
>> right to take my service dog into these places with me. I also have the
>> right to remove my dog's harness while traveling on a bus, airplane, or
>> in a taxicab if this is what I choose to do, provided my dog remains
>> under control and does not pose a direct threat to the health or safety
>> of others. HTH!
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 8:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness
>>
>>
>>>I don't see how the harness cannot be required. If what you are saying is
>>> true, then anybody can march into anywhere without a harness. You could
>>> have
>>> a well behaved dog, or an under achieer for a service dog, and who would
>>> know the difference? I don't mean to be argumentative because you may
>>> well
>>> know more about this than do I, but that seems like it wouldn't make
>>> sense.
>>> No school ever told me that I had to have a harness on either; and TSE
>>> encourages taking the thing off when you are on the plane, especially
>>> with
>>> young dogs. I leave mine on because it seems so cramped to get it back
>>> on,
>>> specially when the flights I have are so close together.
>>>
>>> Cindy Lou
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 7:09 AM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness
>>>
>>>
>>> Angie,
>>> Do you know which airlines have such a policy? Although an airline
>>> may
>>> make such a policy, there is no such requirement in law. If I chose to
>>> travel with my dog out of harness using my white cane, the airline could
>>> not
>>> deny me access. The harness does not make a service dog; its training
>>> does.
>>> Some service animals do not wear harnesses and their owners still have
>>> the
>>> right of access with their dogs
>>> Everyone needs to be aware that, even though the schools tell us
>>> otherwise, we are not required to have our dogs in harness in order to
>>> be
>>> afforded the right of access with them. There is nothing in the Federal
>>> law
>>> requiring a service animal be harnessed. In spite of the fact that some
>>> state laws require this, such laws are unenforceable.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:31 AM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Quick-release handles: was Air Charters and the extra
>>> seat
>>>
>>>
>>>> Wayne,
>>>>
>>>> This kind of experience is one reason I hope The Seeing Eye will
>>>> consider
>>>> ways to provide us with quick-release handles. If we can simply remove
>>>> the
>>>> harness handle, it will easily fit in the space between a window seat
>>>> and
>>>> the inside wall of the plane. This will allow both the human and dog to
>>>> enjoy more room while they fly, while reducing the chances that a
>>>> flight
>>>> attendant would seek to remove the harness from the dog's owner.
>>>>
>>>> Also, some airline policies state that the dog must remain in harness
>>>> at
>>>> all
>>>> times. If we had a quick-release handle, we could comply with such
>>>> policies
>>>> while gaining a bit more leg/dog room.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know how you feel about quick-release handles, but if you agree
>>>> with
>>>> me, I hope you will consider relating this experience to someone at
>>>> Seeing
>>>> Eye as a reason to consider quick-release handles.
>>>>
>>>> Angie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Wayne Merritt
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:15 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Air Charters and the extra seat
>>>>
>>>> I think he's referring to a part of airline history in the eighties
>>>> where the airlines tried to take or in some cases took canes away from
>>>> blind people, claiming that they were dangerous and could fly up and
>>>> hit someone if something were to happen to the plane. Though I missed
>>>> this part of airline history in my travels, I've still been asked a
>>>> few times by flight attendants to give up my cane. I even explained to
>>>> one persont that the cane was securely between my window seat and the
>>>> inside wall of the plane; in other words, it wasn't going anywhere.
>>>> I'm sad to say that I have been pushed into giving up my cane, with
>>>> the flight attendant in question assuring me that she would put my
>>>> cane in the closet at the front of the plane during the flight, but
>>>> this has happened a very few times, thankfully.
>>>>
>>>> I did have one similar experience in my recent Florida travels, when
>>>> they were trying to acccommodate my seating arrangement on one of
>>>> those smaller express jets, where I had to give up my dog's harness. I
>>>> chose not to make an issue of it since I was able to get a seat with
>>>> potentially more room in the first class area, though we are still
>>>> talking of those smaller jets. I was reminded of of the incidents of
>>>> giving up canes though and wondered if giving up a harness was
>>>> similar. Sadly, it does sound familiar to me. I was able to get the
>>>> harness back when leaving the plane, but I still felt like something
>>>> was violated by having to give up the harness. I tried to show the
>>>> flight attendant that it was secure against the wall of the plane, but
>>>> no dice. Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Hth,
>>>> Wayne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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