[nagdu] PBS program link

[Julie J]

Anne,

I agree with many of your points.  It was very good to see the issue of 
matches that just don't work out as a normal part of the process.  I loved 
that they were using positive training methods.  I also do very much like 
the idea of the human partner being actively involved in the matching 
process.  Although my ideal would be for 2 to 4 dogs to be offered and 
picking between them.  I firmly believe that there is no absolutely perfect 
dog, just like there are no perfect people.  It is a relationship which 
involves give and take.  If I had a few dogs to choose from and information 
about each to make a decision I would be a very happy camper!

Julie


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] PBS program link


> Hi, All,
>
> I thought the "Through a Dog's Eyes" program was very well done, and not 
> too bad in the pity department.  Yes, they did emphasize the bond between 
> the people and the dogs, perhaps over the actual physical help the dog can 
> be by performing tasks.  But I think they were correct that the task 
> training does no good in the long run if the bond and relationship aren't 
> there.
>
> I also think they did a very good job of showing all the hard work that 
> goes into building a working team after the new partners go home from the 
> training program.  I thought the program showed very realistically how 
> careful a family has to be to foster and nurture the relationship between 
> the intended handler and the new dog in order to make the team a success, 
> especially when the intended handler is a child.  As they showed, dogs 
> will naturally gravitate to the most nurturing person in the family, 
> especially if the dog is less confident itself, and in most cases, it 
> takes a lot of work to teach a child to be the nurturer of the dog, 
> especially if an adult is doing a lot of the routine care of the dog 
> because the child cannot physically do it, and even more so if the dog is 
> not going to school with the child but is staying at home all day with the 
> parent.  The fact that left to their own devices, many of the dogs do 
> choose a child with special needs to be their person and to mutually 
> nurture and support is truly amazing and wonderful.
>
> And I think they did a great job of showing that things don't always work 
> out, and that it is not the fault of the new handler, or the dog, or 
> anyone, it just happens, and no one is necessarily to blame.  I think 
> perhaps the guide dog training schools might take a leaf from this 
> program's book and openly admit the percentages of graduate teams that end 
> in the first few months or years.  When was the last time you saw in a 
> video from a guide dog program several cases of guide relations that 
> didn't work out?--and presented as just a normal part of the process!
>
> I do think it is a great idea to let the intended handlers and the dogs 
> find and choose each other.  I think the success rate, even in the case of 
> long-established guide dog programs, would be at least as high using this 
> method as it is using instructor-matching .  When I went to TSE for the 
> first time, the instructors had a dog in the "house" which was there 
> because his person was incapacitated for a while.  I volunteered to groom 
> and keep that dog company before we got matched, and, given the choice, I 
> would have taken that dog home.  He was a GSD, just the breed I wanted, 
> and had the characteristics I wanted temperamentally and behaviorally. 
> And we just felt comfortable together from the first moment.  Of course, 
> that dog wasn't available, and the dog I went home with worked out just 
> fine, although we did not have that instant bond.
>
> But I do think the dogs should have a chance to choose their people, more 
> than that the people should have a chance to choose the dogs.  I think 
> people have preconceived notions of what kind of dog they want.  But the 
> dogs go much more on "feel" and "energy."  People can be so influenced by 
> what is fashionable, or by what status they think a particular size, or 
> color, or breed of dog will confer on them, or by how the particular dog 
> will affect their image.  But dogs choose their people on how comfortable 
> they feel with that person, by how their energies match, and by how they 
> complement each other's strengths and needs.
>
> And I didn't get the impression that it was a complete free-for-all in the 
> matching process.  I got the impression that the dogs are introduced to 
> the people in a somewhat structured and controlled way, with trainers 
> observing and noting the dogs' and the people's responses to each other, 
> and that after seeing how all the dogs and people respond to each other, 
> that it gradually becomes apparent where most of the matches lie.  Then, 
> as described in the program, there may be a couple of more tricky matches 
> that the trainers need to be creatively involved in facilitating.
>
> I think the guide dog training programs might consider adopting something 
> like this system by letting prospective handlers interact with several 
> dogs over those first couple of days at the school, perhaps let them 
> groom, play with, or take the dogs for a leisure walk or take them to 
> meals with them. I think it would soon become apparent which people were 
> beaming and which dogs had eyes for only that one person.
>
> Another thing I really liked about this program was the description of 
> their training and handling philosophy.  They realized that the old 
> dominance theory of dog training was not going to work for their handlers, 
> and they have adopted a positive reinforcement based training method that 
> doesn't rely on force, and which takes advantage of a dog's willingness to 
> please and to work happily for rewards that are meaningful to the dog.
>
> I do disagree with one point in this program, and that is that dogs are 
> the only species that can have this special bond with people.  I know from 
> experience that the same kind of bond can grow between a person and a 
> horse, and I suspect that the same goes for other species which have been 
> in millennia long close relationships with human beings.  Horses, too, 
> seem to be able to read our thoughts.  They do seem to understand that it 
> is their job to keep us from harm in certain ways.  And they seem to 
> accept us as their "family" and to adopt roles that they might fill in 
> their packs or "bands" in the case of horses.
>
> I don't blame the makers of the TV program or the people from the 
> assistance dog program for having this canine-centric point of view. 
> After all, how many people in this day and age have had the opportunity to 
> develop a close relationship with a horse, or a camel, or a llama, or an 
> elephant, for that matter?  Yet I believe that if we accept the animal for 
> what it is and we respect the animal and its "culture" and how it sees the 
> world, we will find that we can have deep and caring relationships with 
> individuals of a number of species and that these animals show amazing 
> responsiveness and awareness of us and our needs.
>
> Anyway, it seemed to me that this service dog training program was 
> applying refreshingly creative thinking to the challenges of pairing 
> people with disabilities with dogs and fostering good working and 
> companion relationships between them.  They obviously didn't just go and 
> observe some guide dog training programs and model their program on what 
> was decided in the 1930's and 1940's.  So I give both the Canine 
> Assistants program and the PBS producers high marks for producing a very 
> interesting and thought-provoking piece.
>
> Best,
> Ann
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 8:53 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] PBS program link
>
>
>> Here's the link to the PBS program
>>
>> http://video.pbs.org/video/1475527358
>>
>> When I went to that link the video started playing automatically.   No 
>> clue if that's just my settings or if it will do that for everyone.
>>
>> My thoughts on the program...
>> I'm with Tracy, that bit at the beginning about how the dogs give the 
>> person their life and happiness was disturbing.  I also noticed that they 
>> used, "confined to a wheelchair" which is generally not accepted among 
>> disability groups.  I was also very, very not impressed by a statement 
>> toward the end of the program about the people not being normal, then 
>> they get the dogs and can have a life and a job.
>>
>> this particular service dog program seems to place a lot of dogs with 
>> young children.  The video mentions 5 kids and only one adult.  It was 
>> interesting to see how much the parents and other family members were 
>> involved in the process.
>>
>> I liked the trainer, Chris.  He uses positive training methods, mainly 
>> luring.  It was really cool to see how he could use eye movement to cue 
>> the dog, very useful for nonverbal people.
>>
>> The program focuses a lot on the emotional aspects of service dogs. 
>> Probably 95% of what they talked about were bonding and partnership 
>> aspects and very little in actual tasks.
>>
>> The matching process was very, very different from what is typical in 
>> guide dog programs.  It seemed to me that they let all the dogs and 
>> people mingle in one big room.  The dogs and people picked each other. 
>> I'm not sure how big the class was, but there were two dog switches, one 
>> during class and another a few weeks after returning home.  I like the 
>> concept of choosing your own dog, to a point. I don't know that a free 
>> for all matching process is the best way to go though.
>>
>> JMO
>> Julie
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>
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