[nagdu] Critical blind people

[d m gina]

Hello
I am having problems sending to the list,
I will try again.
One of the things I would love to do is help a deaf blind person.
I used to know sign language and I am sure I can learn it again,
even with out that, I still would love to help a person.
I am pleased that you had the chance to speak with this lady.
How cool is that. Original message:
> I havenoticed, also, that many blind people have no understanding for
> people with multiple disabilities. I will throw my own story about
> this in.

> When I was at the rehab center here in Raleigh, there was a student
> who came just for two classes (because she had other classes to attend
> and needed to concentrate on the two classes carefully for now):
> Braille and Orientation & Mobility. She was deafblind, and only the
> teachers who worked with her gave her any notice, the others all
> avoided contact with her, and I found that none of the other students
> were even saying Hi to her, not even through her translator (she was
> deaf first, then blind, so she is very fluent in ASL). I finally
> decided that it was not something I would condone, this avoidance of a
> personw tih multiple disabilities. After that, the first chance I got,
> I sat down next to her, said hi to her translator and let her know
> that I was just going to chat with Jennifer and that no translation
> was necessary, as I knew some sign language. Then I placed my hand on
> Jennifer's upper arm very lightly, a tap really. She immediately
> extended her hands toward me in what I considered a question like "Who
> are you, why are you touching me, what's up?" I swiftly signed H-I
> into her hand, then "my name Jewel" I spelled it out, then gave the
> sign name I was given by a deaf friend in high school, a J at the
> eyeridge. She told me she knew someone with that sign name already,
> and changed mine to a J at the chin. I smiled, nodded acceptance, and
> we talked a little. Since she was learning the Braille alphabet, I
> asked her how it was going. Of course, having just started, she said
> it was hard and we went on from there. It turned out to be quite fun
> to sit and chat with her...she had a flittering mind like some people
> are...she could go from one topic to the next without concern for
> finishing a topic, and I found that kinda relaxing. We talked about
> everything from classes to cafeteria food to books to volunteer work
> (she was volunteering at a thrift store with her
> translator/caregiver).

> Unfortunately, when I asked her translator if she knew any books on
> signing that didn't rely heavily on pictures, she said she didn't and
> would look int it, but found nothing. I would have asked Jenn, but she
> wasn't around at the moment (in class) and forgot to ask after, but I
> don't think she would have known of any, especially since she didn't
> need them, being fluent in ASL.

> I tried to get other people to talk to Jennifer, whether directly or
> through her translator, but it didn't work too well. But, toward the
> end of my time there, Jennifer started making it a point to talk to
> people when she got to class. One afternoon, she sat down and signed
> to her translator, who spoke up "Hi everyone, I'm Jennifer.  Who all
> is in class today?" I saw that as a very good sign (no pun intended!)
> that my talking with her was showing her that she could make friends
> with other blind people. It made me feel warm when she did that,
> because it showed she was thinking of us as other people that she
> could call friends.

> There was a discussion a little time back about a a Swiss group, I
> believe, coming up with a device that helps blind people see the
> emotions on people's faces. I think that device would be put to much
> better use as a way for blind people to feel the signs translated into
> Braille or some such. It can be hard for a deaf person to allow a
> blind or deafblind person place their hands over theirs as they sign
> (it slows movements and makes some signs almost impossible to make if
> the person's hands are not very lightly touching), and a device that
> translates ASL onto a screen would be good for blind people (tactile
> display) and sighted people (print display).


> Another example of multiple disability insensitivity is my own. I have
> chronic pain and fatigue, and *very* sensitive nerves. I don't like to
> be touched without warning, because it will set up a flash of pain if
> I don't brace myself and even then, it flashes pain but at least I
> know it's coming. However, many people (sighted or blind) feel they
> have to touch me, give hugs and pats on the back or shoulder, grab my
> arm to lead me or expect me to hold their arm so they can lead. They
> don't seem to understand when I say "Please don't pat my back; I have
> chronic pain and it hurts a lot when you do that." or "I will follow
> you. I can listen to your feet and see the colour of your shirt. I
> would rather not touch or be touched." It can be very difficult to get
> people to understand, even those very close to me. My O&M instructor
> still likes to give me a pat on the shoulder when I've done well,
> though I've told him that it hurts and that I'd rather he verbalize
> things instead)...he has almost knocked me over with his "pats." This
> sort of thing can also be seen in people who are blind and have
> autism. Often, autistic people do not wish to be touched because they
> are sensitive to sensory input and a touch can feel very painful or
> interfering to a person.

> Perhaps some kind of sensitivity training would be good for many blind
> people to learn about multiple disabilities. In NAGDU, this could
> apply by doing some kind of sensitivity training about how guide dogs
> work with people with multiple disabilities and how what might seem
> wrong to one person is how that team works best together. Such
> discussion could also discuss dogs who have more than one task. For
> example, Roxy's dogs are guides and also help with pulling laundry
> hampers around (just an example!). Other guide dogs also have a
> balance harness to assist with balance, and still others are trained
> to stop at every curb or driveway, not just intersections, because the
> handler might stumble on the slope down to the driveway or the step
> down off the curb. Still others are trained to work with people in
> motorized wheelchairs, who use a support cane, or who need extra time
> to listen for traffic at an intersection. I think a discussino on this
> topic, a conference call or a class with a presentor who has worked
> with guide dogs who assist people with multiple disabilities (I know
> GDF has) would be a great thing. What do you guys think?



> On 8/1/10, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
>> her name is pronounced: ben yay. I'll explain how she finds stalls/sinks
>> when I have a minute. Am running out the door. <smile>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people


>>> Hi Hope-

>>> Just read your post.  Please tell me how you pronounce your dog's name-
>>> I'm
>>> intrigued.  Also, wondering if you could give me some pointers on how you
>>> trained your guide to find the largest stall and sinks. I've not found a
>>> good enough way yet. It's a gamble to see if she'll find the stall each
>>> time, and finding the sink is rare.
>>> Either way, thanks for listening.

>>> Cathryn (& Abby)

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Hope Paulos
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:14 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people

>>> I agree, Jenine. I was at several conventions, and when I told my dog to
>>> "find the elevator" (no matter where I was in the particular hotel) she'd
>>> immediately take me there. I didn't have to say "left" "right", etc. She
>>> automatically took me there. And this could be from  *anywhere* in the
>>> hotel... I also trained her to find the largest stall in the restroom, the
>>> sink (restroom) and paper towels (just below the dispenser). Now it's a
>>> matter of teaching her to find/follow lines and not cut in front of
>>> people.
>>> <grin>
>>> Hope and Beignet
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Susan Jones" <sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:59 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people


>>>> I find the "find" command invaluable, and use it often, especially for
>>>> trash
>>>> cans, elevator buttons, stairs, doors, etc.
>>>> Susan & Rhoda


>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Jenine Stanley
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 8:18 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people

>>>> Wow, I'm amazed at how many of you have encountered the sentiment that
>>>> having your dog find common things, like entrances, elevators, etc., is
>>>> too
>>>> hard.

>>>> This is not a GDf brag by any means but this concept of using the dog's
>>>> vision and training to help you find things being too much is so foreign
>>>> to
>>>> how I have been taught for the past 20 years that it boggles my mind.

>>>> My first group of instructors at GDf told us that we could teach our dogs
>>>> to
>>>> find just about anything if we used the method we were taught and started
>>>> slowly. We were encouraged throughout class to have the dog find things
>>>> and
>>>> finding entrances and exits was part of every day work. Finding stairs,
>>>> elevators, escalators, etc., was as well. During class we have the dogs
>>>> find
>>>> our rooms, not because GDF thinks we can't  but because it does help to
>>>> instill that find command. I use this constantly in hotels where I want
>>>> the
>>>> dog to return to my room.

>>>> We, and when I say we, I mean students, teach the dogs to find "my seat"
>>>> which is either an assigned seat in the dining room during class, or any
>>>> seat I might vacate and leave things at, such as in a meeting. I don't
>>>> even
>>>> have to leave my things there necessarily.

>>>> The hard part about this type of work is allowing the dog to do it, make
>>>> mistakes and get it right. You do have to offer the dog a little support
>>>> at
>>>> times and not over correct if he or she gets it wrong, but wow, it's a
>>>> way
>>>> of working with a dog that maximizes both of your abilities and if you
>>>> have
>>>> the least problem with hearing or orientation, this skill can be
>>>> invaluable.


>>>> I've heard one instructor say that the find command doesn't work because
>>>> people too often misuse it, asking their dogs to find things that aren't
>>>> there or facing one direction and asking the dog to find the door out of
>>>> a
>>>> room without knowing where it is.

>>>> My answer to this is that either the people he has seen don't understand
>>>> how
>>>> the command works or aren't reading their dogs well, or the dogs have
>>>> never
>>>> been taught the command and what is expected of them. Dogs and people who
>>>> have been taught the find command and know how to teach it in a variety
>>>> of
>>>> settings, usually get it. I can be facing the back wall of a room and ask
>>>> my
>>>> dog to "find outside." He may turn a couple times or do a circuit of the
>>>> room until he recognizes the door out but he will find it. This is
>>>> especially helpful in large open spaces like exhibit halls.

>>>> Now, this year in Dallas, Swap found getting out of the exhibit hall very
>>>> challenging some days. So did my wallet but that's another story. <grin>
>>>> There were often crowds, but not necessarily huge crowds, around the
>>>> entrance so when I asked him to find outside, meaning the way out, he
>>>> would
>>>> do a circuit of the room and end up at a booth we liked, always a
>>>> different
>>>> one, but usually not necessarily close to the exit.

>>>> Well, DUH, Jenine, why not try some positive reinforcement when he does
>>>> get
>>>> it? A little food reward paired with the GDF praise "Good outside!"
>>>> worked
>>>> wonders. E

>>>> I can't even imagine why other blind people or other handlers would
>>>> criticize using these commands, unless it's for the reasons espoused by
>>>> the
>>>> instructor. If my dog just isn't finding something, chances are it really
>>>> isn't there or he's confused somehow. That's when I can step in and ask
>>>> others for help, just pointing me in the right direction usually works
>>>> but
>>>> sometimes the dog figures out that the human knows best and will default
>>>> to
>>>> that.

>>>> The key to really getting the most out of the find command though once
>>>> it's
>>>> been cemented, is to use it. Expect the dog to find things and reward
>>>> appropriately. You also need at times to use other humans to help when
>>>> learning new things to find, like doors, elevators and such in new
>>>> places.
>>>> No big deal though. Some dogs are better at words and finding things than
>>>> others too. I've had the spectrum and even the ones who weren't truly
>>>> word
>>>> oriented were concept and context oriented and caught on quickly.

>>>> Jenine Stanley
>>>> jeninems at wowway.com



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> --
> ~Jewel
> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com

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