[nagdu] ranting handling skills?

Mon Aug 2 16:27:47 UTC 2010

Oh Julie, I'm laughing here. It's like the 25 words for snow, or however
many words the "First Nation" people have for snow. We have that many for
growls and at least that many to describe excrement. <grin> 

You're absolutely right though. There are many different kinds of growling.
My TJ, small male Golden, sounded absolutely vicious when playing as did the
combination of Jackson and Molly in our house, but those were purely play
growls. When I heard TJ use a warning growl in harness to try to keep
another guide dog from mounting him and causing severe pain to his lower
back, it was a completely different sound. 

Jenine Stanley
jeninems at wowway.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 12:18 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] ranting handling skills?

Yes, definitely what Jenine said. Growling can be the first sign of bad 
things ahead.

But I do also want to say that there are a ton of doggie vocalizations and 
not nearly enough words in the English language to accurately describe all 
of them.  Monty will "growl" at me when he brings me a toy sometimes.  It 
has nothing to do with aggression, he clearly wants to play.

During long boring meetings he will sometimes roll to his side and let out a

loud groan that some people might describe as a growl.

Belle growls at her food at every single feeding.  While she is growling she

is also dancing around.  I told you she was nuts!

I allow my two dogs to wrestle and play tug games.  They both growl at each 
other quite frequently.  It is not an indicator of aggression though.

Sometimes when one of Monty's toys rolls under the couch and he is 
frustrated because he can't get it, he will growl.  That particular growl is

very distinct.  I find it funny, but if you didn't know him I think it might

be quite scary.

Anyway my point is that if you're not sure what the root of the growling is,

then it is an excellent idea to consult someone who is more knowledgeable 
about dogs, like a trainer from your school.

HTH
Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] ranting handling skills?

> Laura,
>
> You've received some really good advice here from Julie and others.
>
> My standard advice is to call your school and talk with an instructor 
> about
> what specifically works with your dog. What concerns me is the growling.
>
> Swap can initially in new places have some serious dog distraction issues.
> He wore a gentle leader for the first couple days at the recent 
> conventions
> so I could better catch his early signals. I got one of the few negative
> comments about that too. Someone said "Well, you're a school employee. 
> Your
> dog should never behave that way."
>
> Yeah, right. <grin>
>
> One of the things we tell people about distractions, be they dogs, food,
> kids, whatever, is to react, not analyze. When you feel him ramping up, 
> give
> the appropriate verbal correction or redirection, like "leave it", and 
> then
> praise if he does so. Don't try to figure out why he's wiggling, prancing 
> or
> pulling with neck stretched 2 miles ahead of you. Sorry Swap, gave ya away
> on that one. <grin>
>
> Boy can I empathize though with feeling as if you are the worst handler 
> out
> there. You aren't, or you wouldn't have made it out of training. Now the
> real work starts though. Frustrating, oh yes, no doubt, but once you get 
> him
> over this hurdle, and hopefully the growling stops, you'll be a great 
> team.
> I've had a dog who lunged growling at other dogs and it's not fun. I tell
> people that lunging is one thing but lunging and growling takes it to
> another level as it's a symptom of a larger issue that, if not handled
> correctly, and sometimes even if handled correctly, can mushroom. It's not
> you causing this though. That was the hardest thing for me. What did I do 
> to
> cause my brilliant Doodle Girl Molly to become a psycho dog around other
> dogs? Nothing. She'd never been attacked or otherwise harmed. It turned 
> out
> to be one of those Labradoodle things that happen to some but not all of
> that breed mix. It happens to any dog sometimes.
>
> It's important though to get it stopped, the growling that is, or at least
> try to figure out, with the help of an instructor on site, what's causing
> it. No one wants to have another service animal approach them lunging and
> growling. It's scary. The instant Molly began snapping, her career was 
> over.
> The growl can lead to the snap and I don't want to scare you, but if you
> catch it early and try to figure it out, sometimes you can stop it from 
> ever
> getting that far. I didn't, putting it off to a one-time thing, a 
> particular
> dog, etc.
>
> Good luck and hang in there. You have a school that will back and believe
> you.
>
> Jenine Stanley
> jeninems at wowway.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:24 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] ranting handling skills?
>
> Lora,
>
> Firstly I don't think there is anything wrong with your handling skills. 
> I
> can totally understand why you might feel that way though, given your bad
> luck with previous dogs.  It takes time to really settle in, just keep 
> with
> it.
>
> Monty has been a struggle with dog distractions.  When he was a puppy he
> used to bounce up and down and make the most pitiful noises because I
> wouldn't let him play with every dog on the street.  Yeah, really not 
> good.
> Now I can only tell he sees another dog by the way his body shifts and he
> gets intently focused on something.  As you work with Kori longer you will
> be able to pick up on the more subtle signs that he sees another dog.
>
> In the beginning of working through dog distraction insanity, I would stop
> at the first signs that things were amiss.  Sometimes this meant turning
> around and walking a different way, sometimes walking up a driveway to let
> the other dog pass or turning and facing away from the other dog worked. 
> It
>
> would just depend on the particulars of the situation. After getting some
> distance between us I would get Monty to do something easy that he could 
> be
> successful with.  I kept this up until he was settled and focused again.
>
> As time went on the distance to the other dog got shorter and shorter and
> the level of the reaction lessened.  He has been working as a fully 
> trained
> guide for about 9 months now.  He has had a couple of slip ups where he 
> was
> inappropriately interested in other dogs, but generally if I sense he is
> about to do something stupid, which isn't often, I stop, pivot 180 degrees
> and ask him to do something else.  Generally the something else is sit, 
> down
>
> and a hand target.  I only ask him to do something that I know he will be
> able to do so that I can praise him for the good behavior.  By turning my
> body away from the other dog I am breaking his attention to that dog.  The
> incompatible behaviors allow him to regain focus on me and for him to be
> successful.
>
> As time goes on his interest in other dogs continues to lessen.  It is
> pretty rare that I have to do much more than verbally coach him past other
> dogs these days.   And now that I've said that he'll prove me wrong. 
> *smile*
>
> It takes time, patience and consistency.  It might also help to jot down
> notes each day about how he did.  Then it's a lot easier to see the 
> progress
>
> you are making.
>
> HTH
> Julie
>
>
>
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