[nagdu] ranting handling skills?

Julie J julielj at windstream.net
Tue Aug 3 18:11:25 UTC 2010


Jenine,

The only time I have ever heard Monty growl to raise the hair on the back of 
my neck was not too long after I got him.  He was in his kennel for the 
night.  I was just drifting off to sleep when both dogs started in on the 
hair raising growling.  Belle walked into the living room and growled for a 
few seconds more and then just stopped.  I made my husband get up and go 
look, *smile* but he couldn't figure it out.

I still have no idea what was going on.  Neither of the dogs has done that 
particular growl since.  I hope to never hear it again.  Creepy.

On a lighter note...I should record Monty's pathetic noises at the lost toys 
under the couch.  It is hilarious!

Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] ranting handling skills?


> Oh Julie, I'm laughing here. It's like the 25 words for snow, or however
> many words the "First Nation" people have for snow. We have that many for
> growls and at least that many to describe excrement. <grin>
>
> You're absolutely right though. There are many different kinds of 
> growling.
> My TJ, small male Golden, sounded absolutely vicious when playing as did 
> the
> combination of Jackson and Molly in our house, but those were purely play
> growls. When I heard TJ use a warning growl in harness to try to keep
> another guide dog from mounting him and causing severe pain to his lower
> back, it was a completely different sound.
>
> Jenine Stanley
> jeninems at wowway.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 12:18 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] ranting handling skills?
>
> Yes, definitely what Jenine said. Growling can be the first sign of bad
> things ahead.
>
> But I do also want to say that there are a ton of doggie vocalizations and
> not nearly enough words in the English language to accurately describe all
> of them.  Monty will "growl" at me when he brings me a toy sometimes.  It
> has nothing to do with aggression, he clearly wants to play.
>
> During long boring meetings he will sometimes roll to his side and let out 
> a
>
> loud groan that some people might describe as a growl.
>
> Belle growls at her food at every single feeding.  While she is growling 
> she
>
> is also dancing around.  I told you she was nuts!
>
> I allow my two dogs to wrestle and play tug games.  They both growl at 
> each
> other quite frequently.  It is not an indicator of aggression though.
>
> Sometimes when one of Monty's toys rolls under the couch and he is
> frustrated because he can't get it, he will growl.  That particular growl 
> is
>
> very distinct.  I find it funny, but if you didn't know him I think it 
> might
>
> be quite scary.
>
> Anyway my point is that if you're not sure what the root of the growling 
> is,
>
> then it is an excellent idea to consult someone who is more knowledgeable
> about dogs, like a trainer from your school.
>
> HTH
> Julie
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] ranting handling skills?
>
>
>> Laura,
>>
>> You've received some really good advice here from Julie and others.
>>
>> My standard advice is to call your school and talk with an instructor
>> about
>> what specifically works with your dog. What concerns me is the growling.
>>
>> Swap can initially in new places have some serious dog distraction 
>> issues.
>> He wore a gentle leader for the first couple days at the recent
>> conventions
>> so I could better catch his early signals. I got one of the few negative
>> comments about that too. Someone said "Well, you're a school employee.
>> Your
>> dog should never behave that way."
>>
>> Yeah, right. <grin>
>>
>> One of the things we tell people about distractions, be they dogs, food,
>> kids, whatever, is to react, not analyze. When you feel him ramping up,
>> give
>> the appropriate verbal correction or redirection, like "leave it", and
>> then
>> praise if he does so. Don't try to figure out why he's wiggling, prancing
>> or
>> pulling with neck stretched 2 miles ahead of you. Sorry Swap, gave ya 
>> away
>> on that one. <grin>
>>
>> Boy can I empathize though with feeling as if you are the worst handler
>> out
>> there. You aren't, or you wouldn't have made it out of training. Now the
>> real work starts though. Frustrating, oh yes, no doubt, but once you get
>> him
>> over this hurdle, and hopefully the growling stops, you'll be a great
>> team.
>> I've had a dog who lunged growling at other dogs and it's not fun. I tell
>> people that lunging is one thing but lunging and growling takes it to
>> another level as it's a symptom of a larger issue that, if not handled
>> correctly, and sometimes even if handled correctly, can mushroom. It's 
>> not
>> you causing this though. That was the hardest thing for me. What did I do
>> to
>> cause my brilliant Doodle Girl Molly to become a psycho dog around other
>> dogs? Nothing. She'd never been attacked or otherwise harmed. It turned
>> out
>> to be one of those Labradoodle things that happen to some but not all of
>> that breed mix. It happens to any dog sometimes.
>>
>> It's important though to get it stopped, the growling that is, or at 
>> least
>> try to figure out, with the help of an instructor on site, what's causing
>> it. No one wants to have another service animal approach them lunging and
>> growling. It's scary. The instant Molly began snapping, her career was
>> over.
>> The growl can lead to the snap and I don't want to scare you, but if you
>> catch it early and try to figure it out, sometimes you can stop it from
>> ever
>> getting that far. I didn't, putting it off to a one-time thing, a
>> particular
>> dog, etc.
>>
>> Good luck and hang in there. You have a school that will back and believe
>> you.
>>
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:24 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] ranting handling skills?
>>
>> Lora,
>>
>> Firstly I don't think there is anything wrong with your handling skills.
>> I
>> can totally understand why you might feel that way though, given your bad
>> luck with previous dogs.  It takes time to really settle in, just keep
>> with
>> it.
>>
>> Monty has been a struggle with dog distractions.  When he was a puppy he
>> used to bounce up and down and make the most pitiful noises because I
>> wouldn't let him play with every dog on the street.  Yeah, really not
>> good.
>> Now I can only tell he sees another dog by the way his body shifts and he
>> gets intently focused on something.  As you work with Kori longer you 
>> will
>> be able to pick up on the more subtle signs that he sees another dog.
>>
>> In the beginning of working through dog distraction insanity, I would 
>> stop
>> at the first signs that things were amiss.  Sometimes this meant turning
>> around and walking a different way, sometimes walking up a driveway to 
>> let
>> the other dog pass or turning and facing away from the other dog worked.
>> It
>>
>> would just depend on the particulars of the situation. After getting some
>> distance between us I would get Monty to do something easy that he could
>> be
>> successful with.  I kept this up until he was settled and focused again.
>>
>> As time went on the distance to the other dog got shorter and shorter and
>> the level of the reaction lessened.  He has been working as a fully
>> trained
>> guide for about 9 months now.  He has had a couple of slip ups where he
>> was
>> inappropriately interested in other dogs, but generally if I sense he is
>> about to do something stupid, which isn't often, I stop, pivot 180 
>> degrees
>> and ask him to do something else.  Generally the something else is sit,
>> down
>>
>> and a hand target.  I only ask him to do something that I know he will be
>> able to do so that I can praise him for the good behavior.  By turning my
>> body away from the other dog I am breaking his attention to that dog. 
>> The
>> incompatible behaviors allow him to regain focus on me and for him to be
>> successful.
>>
>> As time goes on his interest in other dogs continues to lessen.  It is
>> pretty rare that I have to do much more than verbally coach him past 
>> other
>> dogs these days.   And now that I've said that he'll prove me wrong.
>> *smile*
>>
>> It takes time, patience and consistency.  It might also help to jot down
>> notes each day about how he did.  Then it's a lot easier to see the
>> progress
>>
>> you are making.
>>
>> HTH
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
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