[nagdu] being reported to your school

[Tamara Smith-Kinney]

Rox,

Pretty much what you said.  Can I go to Bourbon street with you?  /grin/

Listening in on the discussion of the specific drinking/vomiting and how it
relates to abuse leading up to your message, I can see it from a number of
sides...  I had a hard time giving a way a litter of kittens I inadvertently
ended up with because I couldn't be sure the people who got them would meet
my approval.  /smile/  With a guide dog puppy, perhaps my own biases would
give me some assurances that it would be passing from my hands to good
training and a useful life with a caring handler...  Or not.  Having not
done it, I can't say how I would really feel.  I respect puppy raisers a lot
for being able to do their jobs so well and pass the pup on because I do
realize what a hard time I would have with that myself.  /smile/

Since I don't the now-famous vomiter beyond that one tale, I have no way to
judge if this is the only way in which he was a jerk to his dog or to
others, whereas Jordan probably knows more and may look at those details he
shared in a different light because of his knowledge of the individual.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that deciding to take the guide dog to one
venue where others might leave it home (the bar example is always a good
one), it depends very much on the individual dog, as well as the individual
handler.  I tend to avoid situations fraught with high negative emotion and
conflict because my poodly thing is very sensitive to that.  If I do run
into a situation with her where the conflict comes towards me, well, I tend
to reach for my zen before pulling out my big guns because of Mitzi.  On the
rare occasions when the conflict has come to me because of her (usually in
the form of some self-identified expert who takes it as a duty to explain to
me how very, very wrong I am in all ways because of my dog; or worse, that
it is the dog herself that is inherently flawed), I become just so darned
sweet I make myself sick.  Not so much now that Mitzi is mature and stable
in her personality.  Only no one has approached me to be offensively
intrusive and obnoxious since I decided it would be okay for me to express
myself a bit more freely.  Where's the fun?  /grin/

As for bars...  Mitzi *loves* them!  When I first went to a local pub
complete with music and crowds, I was very tentative and viewed it as a
trial run only, expecting Ms. Overstimulation to be seven kinds of weird in
the 30 seconds before I had to take us out...  Shows what I know!  She was
relaxed and comfortable, not relaxed in a poodle melt sort of way, just
enjoying the ambience and leading her handler-to-be through the crowd to the
bar, where she settled down in front of the barstools to watch the crowd
while my fiend and I chatted with our friend who was tending bar...  She got
bored after a while, but for her then it was a long while, and she started
demanding attention.  But we'd had time to finish a meal and chat and enjoy
a new beer and everything before then.  A rare treat for me in those days!
Then she led me out very nice and business like (again, a new treat) and
came out into the light and fresh air cheerful and smiling just like anyone
else coming out of the place...  /lol/

Well, I have noticed since that she enjoys places that are fairly dark but
that put me on enough sensory overload that I don't have the wits left do do
anything but let her lead me around by the hadn...  I'm a more consistent
handler by now, except for those days when I just can't seem to keep my head
in the right space, and even then I'm not so terrible as I used to be
because being guided is becoming habit finally.  But when I was first
learning, I would tend to wander too much on my end of the harness or just
forget that I wasn't the one who was supposed to know where to go to deal
with whatever was right in front of us if I was too relaxed and cheerful.
If I was too uptight and could still have a sense of seeing what was going
on, then I would end up trying to be too controlling instead of trusting her
to do what I'd spent all that time training her to do.  Poor kid!  She had a
lot to put up with!  So I'm sure a nice pub with friends where the music and
lack of lighting made me nice and dependent upon my guide while I was still
happy and relaxed whas just great for her.  /lol/

I haven't tried going out and really tying one on then letting her be the
designated driver while we stagger home...  I don't really have plans to, on
the theory that I, too, and old enough and wise enough to discovered the
negative after effects of such indulgence and to learn not to appreciate
them.  /grin/  But It is nice to know we can both go with our friends to
some of the great pubs around town and have a nice relaxing time together
over drinks.  /smile/

And if people think I'm abusing my dog taking her into all that noise and
drinking...  Well, if they don't tell me about it, they'll almost certainly
report me to my friends or to DD, so I'll be sure to be informed! /grin/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of The Pawpower Pack
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 8:36 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] being reported to your school

I would agree that throwing up on one's dog is hardly ideal.  However,  
sometimes stuff happens.  I take my dog to bars when I go.  My dog is  
there if I drink alcohol.  Granted, I'm at the point in my life, where  
time and experience has taught me that drinking until one throws up is  
hardly a good idea, for a number of reasons.  However I don't think  
taking my dog to the bar and drinking is a crime.  If someone saw my  
dog at a bar and saw me drinking and having a good time with friends  
and they accused me of abuse, I'd be pretty upset.
People are different, they have different lifestyles.  Some dogs don't  
like bars and the noise does bother them.  If someone had a dog like  
that, I would hope they'd use their judgement and not take the dog.   
However if the dog is like mine and doesn't really care, then who's  
business is it of anyone's to say I should, or should not have my dog  
at a bar?
Also if someone threw up on their dog because they were ill, is that  
still abuse, or is it the drinking plus the vomiting that is the issue?
I drink, I go to bars.  I live in New Orleans and my dog goes on  
Bourbon street with me and I have a hard time thinking this is abusive.

My dog gets fed, loved, medical care.  She works has toys, other dog  
friends and I spend lots of time with her.  Does the fact that someone  
drinks alcohol with their dog at a bar then negate all of the other  
things?
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm honestly curious.


Rox and the Herbal HenchHounds
Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
"It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point  
out that the emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a half- 
wit, and the emperor remains an emperor."-- Neil Gaiman
http://www.pawpowercreations.com/retreat.html
pawpower4me at gmail.com
AIM: Brissysgirl

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