[nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: EXTERNAL: Puppy raising

Thu Aug 5 18:47:32 UTC 2010

Dan, 
Interesting. 
Why do we care though? If I got bad service someplace I wouldn't care
how they treated me as I wouldn't be going back. 
And, if I did decide I wanted to consider them, I'd have a hart-to-heart
with the people in charge at that time If we couldn't kiss and make up,
then maybe my initial negative impressions stand. 
Point being, I don't think we can have it both ways

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Dan Weiner
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 2:43 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL: Puppy raising

Unfortunatley people don't name schools when it comes to bad experiences
because we're afraid that naming a school may influence our treatment by
that school.

Dan W. and the Carter Clown

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 2:24 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL: Puppy raising

I'm wondering why Katherine and others who disagree with how a school
treated a situation are not naming the school? We are allowed to name
our
school if the experience is good. Why not for due dilligence sake name
the
school when they do something we don't like and let those people
considering
that school use all the data to make their own oppinion? 
After all, if we were talking about Mexican food, someone might say "I
love
Taco Bell, I got great service, the food was good, and it wasn't
expensive".
I might say, I didn't like the food, the service was slow and I didn't
like
the cost" 
Anybody then wanting to go to Taco Bell could then draw their own
conclusions. 
Why aren't we doing this with guide dog schools? Seems like we're
demmanding
that the schools treat us like adults, yet are not giving ourselves the
credit to sort out information.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
Of Cathryn Bonnette
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 8:15 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL: Puppy raising

All:

After reading this, I register my vote for ownership based on
experience. If
you have a moment to read, here's my story:

While renting a house on a cul-de-sac at the end of another
cul-de-sac,-meaning there were rarely any cars on either street-  I
decided
to leave my guide at home one morning since she was enjoying the sun in
my
fenced back garden. I lived walking distance from my office, and planned
to
come hone for lunch and take her back to the office that afternoon.
Gardners
came that morning, and despite my instructions left the gate open when
they
finished their work. My guide took a stroll down the street and a
neighbor
put her in his garage with his lab. I came home for lunch, found the
open
gate and went down the street calling her loudly and asking everyone I
encountered until I found her, thanked my neighbor and brought her home.
Meanwhile this Good Samaritan had called the school due to tags on my
dog's
collar. So, I called the school to let them know all was well.
Regardless of
my assurances, they insisted on showing up at my home, to "make sure
you're
all right." As they continued to insist, I finally confronted them with
the
abuse I had witnessed and experienced by one of their staff, and    told
them that if they came to my home uninvited, I would file a complaint
for
trespass. I concluded by repeating that both my dog and I were
completely
safe, and that I was returning to work.  Of coarse, that made me public
enemy #1 and the Wicked Witch of the West etc.  from that school's
prspective.
You may think this sounds harsh, but I knew the month of abusive
treatment I
had survived at the school, and of horror stories about dogs being taken
back from blind people without notice or basis since this school never
gave
legal ownership to blind persons who received dog guides from them.
Thus,
abusing blind people was tolerated, but the school retained ownership of
their dogs to prevent dog abuse. (Perhaps it is just me, but this seems
rather strange.)  I am in absolute agreement that dog abusers should not
be
able to keep dogs. I am equally convinced that blind persons who use dog
guides must not be treated like children as schools retain legal
ownership
of dog guides. My suggestion as a way to deal with dog abusers is to
contact
local animal control.  They will observe and intervene. 
OK- sorry this is so long.  Have a great day everyone, and comment as
you
like.

Cathryn (& Abby)
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 4:47 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL: Puppy raising

I look at it is if we had to fill out reports and it minimized the dogs
that
ended up getting abused, mistreated or whatever it would also reflect
better
on us as dog guide users. We are a minority just being blind. Being
blind
dog guide owners makes us more of a minority.
So, if someone saw a blind guy abusing his dog or saw a dog that wasn't
being taken care of, what kind of response do you think that person's
going
to give to the next person who he/she runs across with a guide? It's a
reputation thing almost as much as it is to protect the animals. If we
want
to keep our rights as dog guide owners, we have to show that we can take
care of them and not abuse them. One or two people abusing their dogs in
front of the right individual could spell trouble for dog access laws.
You
guys can disagree as much as you wish, any comments are welcome.

On 30/07/2010, Danielle Nicole Larsen <dnlarsen75 at gmail.com> wrote:
> People who shouldn't have dogs are people I believe whoa ren't ready
for
the
> commitment. People who have drug problems. People who are unable to
control
> their temper. Anyone who'd put a dog in danger.
> Big brother watching is creepy. Ownership is valuable.
> But to prevent dogs from being in danger I think it's teh safer choice

> overall.
> It would be a sacrifice I'd be willing to make to protect the others.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 4:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL: Puppy raising
>
>
>> How are you deciding that "people who shouldn't have dogs" might get
them
>> and what constitutes your criteria for who should have a dog?
>> So, if people who shouldn't have dogs, in quotes, get them, than
wasn't
it
>> the poor judgment of the school rather than a question of ownership?
>> I do believe in total unfettered and unrestricted ownership, though I
see
>> that I'm in a minority--smile.
>> Most of us apparently want big brother watching us.
>>
>> A yearly vet report won't stop, for example, the people I myself
think
>> shouldn't have dogs, the ones who in my judgment correct the begeezes
out
>> of
>> their dogs.
>> Or those who are yelling at their dogs, that bugged me more than,
say, an
>> uncontrolled dog before I had a dog. Now I have a dog and know things

>> happen, but I have a mental check list of people I have met who I
think
>> would do the dog and themselves a favor by not having one--smile.
>>
>> Remember, that's my judgment, if a training facility doesn't   think
>> certain
>> grads should have dogs  then they will need to do better at selecting
or
>> training.
>> A blind person is still a person.
>> I love dogs more than I can say, actually, but facts are facts,
people
>> need
>> to be given consideration, blind people too--smile.
>> We're not just people who have been granted a dog and therefore must
be
>> watched because the dog is more important than we are and being a
blind
>> person with a guide dog, we might and probably will abuse our dogs..
>> If the schools are so sure we will abuse our dogs, then think twice
about
>> training them for us.
>>
>> I personally despise slime balls who abuse their dogs, but will a
school
>> owning our dogs and subjecting us to yearly check  lists stop that?
>> Evidence suggests that it won't.
>> The Seeing Eye grants ownership, as I understand, I have not,
however,
got
>> the impression that more Seeing Eye grads mistreat their dogs than
any
>> other
>> school's grads.
>>
>>
>> Remember not attacking you, just expressing my opinions as you are 
>> expressing yours.
>>
>> Cordially,
>>
>> Dan W.
>>
>> -----Or
>>
>>
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