[nagdu] Odd encounter second edition
Tamara Smith-Kinney
tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Mon Aug 16 19:14:37 UTC 2010
Cathryn,
That's pretty much the approach I take with verbal idiocy. I make a big
fuss over the cute little poodle who is ignoring the fools without giving
them any hint that I noticed them....
And I hope they don't escalate... I listen for that, because I can never
tell if it's some dumb kids who think they're being clever and funny without
a clue they're causing a problem or evil jerk kids who are trying to do harm
and cause a problem... Sometimes the differences between the two types are
subtle in terms of tone and language and whatever I can hear of movement
from them. So I'm always thinking about what I'm going to do if... So far,
that hasn't been an issue, and I just get to do distraction training and
love on my dog while whatever it is ceases for lack of interest. /smile/
Then there are the clearly adult morons.... You know, the ones who are past
meouwing or barking at the guide dog, or making snide comments about her or
blind people or stuff just to prove how cool they are. Sigh. There was
"shake" guy who I seriously really and truly did consider whacking soundly
over the head with the folding cane in my back pocket since talking to him
wasn't making an impact and he was in my dog's face so I couldn't even sit
down as the bus started to move -- plus I didn't want to get back to the
process of making sure of my seat before I sat down because I needed to get
him off my dog... Grrr! He was my first bus idiot, come to think of it, so
I was fairly nonplussed as to what, exactly, to do. I'd heard about that
sort of thing, but I guess part of me didn't actually believe people would
8be* that way, so I was unprepared with a response. Sigh.
Then there was the woman who spent an entire bus trip telling me repeatedly
that the lady who moved farther back in the bus as I was getting on was
afraid of my dog. She was just annoying and my efforts to find a reasonable
basis for discussion and education just elicited the same words: "I think
that lady was afraid of your dog. She moved when you were getting on. I
think she was afraid of your dog." Then turned out to be going to the same
MAX (light rail) stop I was and needed me to show her the way, while she
kept on about the same thing! Thank heavens she didn't end up taking the
same train I did, because I was now getting tired of hearing myself say that
perhaps it was so, I didn't know, but that she moved while I was still
taking my transfer ticket from the driver, so there didn't seem to be any
problem, and I sat where I'm supposed to sit because those seats are set
aside for me and my dog, and my dog was under the seat and out of the way...
The woman who had moved was bright blonde and waring light colored clothes,
so I had been aware of her movement, but she was gone by the time I got to
the seats. She moved quickly, but I didn't hear any shrieking or pick up
signs that she was running scared. For all I knew, she just decided to
leave the Honored Citizen seating area to clear the way for my Honored self.
I'm really proud of myself on that one, though, because I was able to
repeatedly resist the urge to snap, "That's *her* problem, not mine!"
Those are my two favorites from the bus/train... Except for the problem of
hale and hearty people refusing to move to one of the many empty seats set
aside especially for them so that I can't sit down with my dog... Some of
the trains here have stairs to go up (then down) right inside the door, so I
feel especially grumpy when I start to figure out that I'm standing there
with my dog under my legs to keep her out of the way because I thought I'd
walked into an Honored Citizen convention of some sort, only it's just a
gathering of rude jerks. In fact, before I ride the train again, I need to
contact Tri-Met to find out what my civilized options are there. I always
feel at a big disadvantage in that situation because the sounds are so
confusing along with the movement of the train that it takes me awhile to
figure out what's what unless I fell with my hands... I'm just not
comfortable feeling up random strangers, I guess. /smile/
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Cathryn Bonnette
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 1:12 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Odd encounter second edition
I guess I could argue both sides of this. It would certainly be infuriating
to have your guide provoked by such behavior, and it was clearly
intentional. Simultaneously, if these childish individuals see that their
noises are being ignored by both blind person and dog guide, they lose the
motivation to continue- no positive reinforcement. What they want is to
call attention to themselves by proving to their peers that they can get a
response from the guide or the blind person or both. If that doesn't work,
they lose interest. The reason I am making this statement is that I cannot
count the number of times this has happened to me. I turn it into a training
experience for the guide. My guides learn how absolutely wonderful they are
for ignoring such brain dead characters because as the noise becomes obvious
as a possible distraction, I lean over and begin talking in my dog's ear or
above their head reminding them how brilliant and professional they are
to just ignore that racket, and including a command that tells them to
"leave it" or "enough" or whatever I've used previously with that dog. If
the noise makers continue, I begin to raise my volume as I speak to my dog,
scratching and petting the dog as well to make it obvious what I am doing
without speaking or looking at the idiots who are making noise. Thus, I am
identifying with all the rest of the "normal" people on the bus and
isolating the idiots in the back making noise. It has worked every time, and
what my dog has is an intense praise session!
I do understand the protective measures through the Board as well, just
haven't needed to use that approach.
Cathryn (& Abby)
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Steve Johnson
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 2:00 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Odd encounter second edition
Tami
Your comments just brought to mind an issue that I have had occur at least 2
times in the past 3 weeks. The first was when I was on the bus and going
over to see my girlfriend and her guide. There were some younger adults in
the back of the bus purposely making short whistles trying to gain Misha's
attention. After a few more whistles, I turned and said that if you are
whistling at my dog I would ask that you please stop as she is working, and
thanked them. About 15-20 seconds later it again resumed at which point I
quickly turned and stated, that if you continue to conduct yourselves in
this manner, I will ask the bus driver to have you removed. Furthermore I
am a member on our Transit Board, and I will further see that you are
removed. And as a special point of interest, it is against the law in the
State of Wisconsin to harass or interfere with a service dog team, and you
are doing both which you can be fined for. They shut up, and I left at the
next stop. This again happened just a week ago when some younger adults
were meowing in the back of the bus. At first, it sounded like a baby, and
it was very difficult to distinguish. When it would occur, the small group
of about 3-4 would laugh. They exited, and I was uncertain what it actually
was. I confirmed with the driver what happened and he too believed they
were provoking my guide. At a meeting this past Tuesday of our ADA Advisory
Committee, and I being the Chair, I presented this and we moved forth a
motion to have management implement a policy not only addressing the new
definition of a service dog, but adding the clause about harassment and
interference of a service dog team can result in immediate removal by the
driver. The transit company will be working with the drivers to further
educate them on this as they are indeed wonderful drivers, look out for our
best interest as customers using dog guides, and have a vested interest in
such issues. We are really pushing for a no-tolerence policy that goes
beyond this type of behavior when anyone is facing such harassment,
interference or verbal comments that are perceived as being harmful or
hurtful to the individual.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 11:21 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Odd encounter
Sean,
It does help when the driver has his/her eye on the ball. /smile/ Still,
it can be very disconcerting in the short time before things get sorted out.
/smile/
One thing I have learned is to wait in the back of the line to get on if
things are crowded, so that I don't get all confused by the people moving
around where I'm trying to sit down. It used to be that when people would
play the "after you" game, I would thank them politely and get on, which
would work fine unless there was something strange going on at the front of
the bus that I had to deal with -- like somebody trying to pet my dog or
getting down in her face to see if she would shake hands... Good grief!
So now, I smile swweetly and say, Thanks, you go ahead please. /lol/ This
doesn't stop surprising things from happening when it's time to sit down,
but it does give me a better chance of not being entirely baffled and
confuddled. Just mostly. /grin/
Most of our bus drivers here do a pretty good job of watching what's going
on, so when it's just obnoxious conversation, I get the impression they make
sure this innocent little lamb doesn't get off the bus and go home with the
drunk guy. In fact, with one, the driver advised me to go to a different
stop, which I was happy to do as my new best friend staggered off all by his
lonesome. Sheesh! I agreed with the bus driver wholeheartedly, and she was
great about telling me how the next stop related to the stop I had planned
to get off on and how the streets between were laid out. I thought that was
really great of her and told her so!
Anyway, glad your oddness was short and that Franklin was untroubled by the
crazy man. /smile/ I love how you describe the look on his face.
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sean Moore
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 2:40 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Odd encounter
The driver saw that guy was a little off. That and he was hitting on one
lady who lives in my apartment complex, with her husband right there. THough
I think he didn't pay attention at all or he was asleep.
But the drunk was kicked off the bus after like 3 stops.
Yours,
Sean Moore &
Southeastern Guide Dog, Franklin
Contact Information
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