[nagdu] anticipating

Mon Aug 16 23:23:33 UTC 2010

Julie,

Interesting way to describe it.  I get a lot of entertainment trying to
puzzle out how Mitzi puts together the information and comes up with the
right conclusion, but by now I just expect to spend the rest of my life
being baffled.

When we're on familiar routes and I know where we are in general at least,
then I can safely consider that it may be clues from me she's picking up...

Being the sort of person who tends to head off into the great unknown -- or
to end up in the great unknown by not orienting properly before setting off
to where I think I know where I'm going, I have discovered that Mitzi can
figure out on her own with no help from -- sometimes with a lot of whining
and resisting from me because I feel all lost -- where we intended to go in
the first place (and I generallly tell her the itinerary, although it's
often just me veralizing it to myself) and how to get there after I get us
off course...  Then there are those times when I set out on a purposely
random adventure to practice my own skills at getting unlost and because I
think that sort of adventure is kind of fun, and I will occasionally decide
to follow her hints and statements of preference once I get us suitably
lost, just to see what happens, since I can now take myself out of the
equation what with being more or less, you know, lost.  Call it scientific
curiosity.  What *is* a dog's capacity for complex decision making and
communicating past a species barrier?

Well, so far I've come to the inescapable conclusion that it is far more
than I expect based on my own knowledge and experience, even.  Of course, I
still don't know what clues I'm giving her based on my subconscious
awareness of where I am and which direction I'm facing and all of that, even
though my conscious brain is stuck on, "Huh? Where am I and how did I get
here?"  /grin/

Anyway, I like hearing how you describe Monty's doing some of that same
abstract reasoning to arrive at a correct conclusion -- apparently, anyway.
Also, your list of factors that could be informing his small choices so that
it just appears he can read your mind and take you to the right place...

If I ever find a canine mind reading machine, I am going to devote my life
to figuring out how guide dogs do it in their brain.  Translating their
extraordinary training into real life work as a guide takes something extra
that I know must be there but can't begin to define.  Hm....

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 3:33 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] anticipating

Steve,

No, I wouldn't call it patterning.  I don't take the same exact route to 
work every day, but no matter what my initial decisions about the first few 
blocks he'll make the correct turns to get to work.  During the school year 
when I go there pretty regularly I also vary the route, but he will usually 
catch on and choose the correct direction.  that's about a half an hour 
walk, while getting to work is 10 minutes or so.

I'm guessing he knows by the time of day and the stuff I bring along and the

general direction we turn when we initially leave home, where the final 
destination is.   It's sort of like he has a mental map of the final 
destination and can choose from a variety of specific routes to get there. 
I think that's probably over estimating his mental capacity, perhaps it's 
just that I'm giving subtle clues of the general direction I want to go that

he's picking up on.  Or it could be that we've exhausted every variable of 
each route and he's simply repeating one of them?  I don't exactly know.

Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Johnson" <stevencjohnson at centurytel.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] anticipating

> Julie,
>
> Isn't this also patterning?  I would expect that a dog would anticipate 
> when
> patterned, but conversely, should be able to move beyond the regular route
> when commanded.
>
> JMO,
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 2:14 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] anticipating
>
> Heya all,
>
> I will have had Monty two years tomorrow. We have worked together as a 
> team
> for about 10 months of that.  I was reflecting back on all the progress we
> have made and how smoothly we are working together, at least most days.
> *smile*
>
> Anyway this morning on the way to work I was pondering the issue of guides
> that anticipate turns.  My understanding is that most of the programs
> discourage this.  I'm talking about a dog who makes a turn on a regular
> route without direct direction from the handler to do so.
>
> Monty does this all the time.  I have actually cultivated the skill 
> because
> I appreciate it.  Of course if I feel him begin a turn and I want to go
> another way I simply stop, praise him and give the new instructions.  Also
> if we pass a place where we have turned in the past, but it's not a really
> regular place, he'll sort of do a half turn with a pause and look back to
> see if that's what I want.  I absolutely love this and can't imagine 
> working
> it differently.
>
> My route to work is basically straight west with only a deviation of one
> block north.  I vary the route as much as is possible.  It really makes no
> difference where I choose to turn north, he always figures out where to go
> at the next corner.
>
> I'd love to hear how all of you balance the initiative of the dog,
> anticipating turns, indicating possible turns and the like.
>
> Julie
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