[nagdu] Another Reason for Having Your Own Harness

Fri Aug 20 16:25:31 UTC 2010

Julie,

You are so right!  The backend changes in the website I've been working on
will make it possible to do such surveys there.  I haven't announced the
completed changeover yet because I'm still making sure I know the new
backend inside and out and know what I'm doing and everything.  And so that
I make sure the structure is sound for future growth and creating a plan for
that growth and...  Well, nitty gritty stuff.

In other words, it is now possible to put such a poll on the website if we
want to.  I'm thinking that sort of thing should be run by the board first,
so I'm planning on doing that -- supposing I remember to set my alarm for
the next board meeting!  D'oh!

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:08 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Another Reason for Having Your Own Harness

This is exactly why I think a Consumer Reports type of survey needs to be 
done, comparing the various programs from the perspective of the graduates.

We want to stop the perpetuation of harness repossession and other similar 
behavior, but still there is some hesitation to speak publicly about exactly

what is going on.  Perhaps an anonymous survey would give a voice to those 
who are afraid to speak up for whatever reason.

JMHO
Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Another Reason for Having Your Own Harness

>I don't currently have a guide dog, but I am going to be applying to a 
>school in the near future. I would definitely like to avoid the schools 
>with a very custodial attitude. In researching schools what should I look 
>for? The school is not going to state on there website that they do X Y and

>Z wrong, and, no one wants to say the name of a school when they have a 
>problem with them.
> Very confused,
> Mark
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Another Reason for Having Your Own Harness
>
>
>> Mark,
>>    all of the schools retain ownership of the tack; however, some are 
>> more custodial than others. What those who are deciding to get dogs 
>> should consider is the ownership policies of the school. If the school 
>> does not transfer ownership upon graduation, one should question why this

>> is so! If we, as blind people, have the capacity to raise children 
>> without, why do schools feel as if we are unable to properly care for our

>> dogs and, thus, need to "supervise" us and have control over our lives in

>> this way?
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Another Reason for Having Your Own Harness
>>
>>
>>> What school are you referring to? I have herd references to this school 
>>> from several people, but I can't figure out what school it is. Or are 
>>> there several schools doing this kind of stuff. Saying the name of the 
>>> school will not call down the fury of the guide dog police.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU List" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 1:15 AM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Another Reason for Having Your Own Harness
>>>
>>>
>>>> dear All,
>>>>    Another very important reason for having your own harness is that 
>>>> the school retains ownership of the gear. Now, most schools will not 
>>>> arbitrarily reclaim their harnesses, but I have heard of a few people 
>>>> from one particular school that did do such a thing and without just 
>>>> cause. Since each of these people owned their dogs, the school could 
>>>> not take possession of the dogs, but did repossess the harnesses. In 
>>>> one instance, the school actually went so far as to go to the local 
>>>> police department and assert that the dogs were no longer "certified 
>>>> guide dogs" and, as such, had no rights of access. Fortunately, the 
>>>> police knew better and advised the trainer of that, letting him know 
>>>> they would protect the blind person's legal rights, if needed. This 
>>>> particular school has since changed its ownership policy and now has 
>>>> demonstrated that they are willing to repossess dogs without cause and 
>>>> without due process!
>>>>    BTW, in one specific case, the school could not repossess the dog 
>>>> because, at that time,  the individual had ownership and the local 
>>>> animal control, while making an unannounced visit, found no evidence of

>>>> abuse or neglect. In fact, the official report said there was plenty of

>>>> food in the house, fresh water on the floor, and the dog's nails were 
>>>> painted! When I spoke with the investigator, he said, "The dog was 
>>>> certainly neither abused nor neglected; however, the trainer was 
>>>> certainly abusive to the individual!"
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>> 813-626-2789
>>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>> HTTP://NAGDU.ORG
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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t
>>
>>
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