[nagdu] Another Reason for Having Your Own Harness

Fri Aug 20 16:50:46 UTC 2010

Does this mean Tami that I can tell you to "get your butt in gear?" :)

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 12:26 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Another Reason for Having Your Own Harness

Julie,

You are so right!  The backend changes in the website I've been working
on
will make it possible to do such surveys there.  I haven't announced the
completed changeover yet because I'm still making sure I know the new
backend inside and out and know what I'm doing and everything.  And so
that
I make sure the structure is sound for future growth and creating a plan
for
that growth and...  Well, nitty gritty stuff.

In other words, it is now possible to put such a poll on the website if
we
want to.  I'm thinking that sort of thing should be run by the board
first,
so I'm planning on doing that -- supposing I remember to set my alarm
for
the next board meeting!  D'oh!

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:08 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Another Reason for Having Your Own Harness

This is exactly why I think a Consumer Reports type of survey needs to
be 
done, comparing the various programs from the perspective of the
graduates.

We want to stop the perpetuation of harness repossession and other
similar 
behavior, but still there is some hesitation to speak publicly about
exactly

what is going on.  Perhaps an anonymous survey would give a voice to
those 
who are afraid to speak up for whatever reason.

JMHO
Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Another Reason for Having Your Own Harness

>I don't currently have a guide dog, but I am going to be applying to a 
>school in the near future. I would definitely like to avoid the schools

>with a very custodial attitude. In researching schools what should I
look 
>for? The school is not going to state on there website that they do X Y
and

>Z wrong, and, no one wants to say the name of a school when they have a

>problem with them.
> Very confused,
> Mark
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Another Reason for Having Your Own Harness
>
>
>> Mark,
>>    all of the schools retain ownership of the tack; however, some are

>> more custodial than others. What those who are deciding to get dogs 
>> should consider is the ownership policies of the school. If the
school 
>> does not transfer ownership upon graduation, one should question why
this

>> is so! If we, as blind people, have the capacity to raise children 
>> without, why do schools feel as if we are unable to properly care for
our

>> dogs and, thus, need to "supervise" us and have control over our
lives in

>> this way?
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"

>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Another Reason for Having Your Own Harness
>>
>>
>>> What school are you referring to? I have herd references to this
school 
>>> from several people, but I can't figure out what school it is. Or
are 
>>> there several schools doing this kind of stuff. Saying the name of
the 
>>> school will not call down the fury of the guide dog police.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU List" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 1:15 AM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Another Reason for Having Your Own Harness
>>>
>>>
>>>> dear All,
>>>>    Another very important reason for having your own harness is
that 
>>>> the school retains ownership of the gear. Now, most schools will
not 
>>>> arbitrarily reclaim their harnesses, but I have heard of a few
people 
>>>> from one particular school that did do such a thing and without
just 
>>>> cause. Since each of these people owned their dogs, the school
could 
>>>> not take possession of the dogs, but did repossess the harnesses.
In 
>>>> one instance, the school actually went so far as to go to the local

>>>> police department and assert that the dogs were no longer
"certified 
>>>> guide dogs" and, as such, had no rights of access. Fortunately, the

>>>> police knew better and advised the trainer of that, letting him
know 
>>>> they would protect the blind person's legal rights, if needed. This

>>>> particular school has since changed its ownership policy and now
has 
>>>> demonstrated that they are willing to repossess dogs without cause
and 
>>>> without due process!
>>>>    BTW, in one specific case, the school could not repossess the
dog 
>>>> because, at that time,  the individual had ownership and the local 
>>>> animal control, while making an unannounced visit, found no
evidence of

>>>> abuse or neglect. In fact, the official report said there was
plenty of

>>>> food in the house, fresh water on the floor, and the dog's nails
were 
>>>> painted! When I spoke with the investigator, he said, "The dog was 
>>>> certainly neither abused nor neglected; however, the trainer was 
>>>> certainly abusive to the individual!"
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>> 813-626-2789
>>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>> HTTP://NAGDU.ORG
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for 
>>>> nagdu:
>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.c
om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for 
>>> nagdu:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizo
n.ne
t
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for

>> nagdu:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.c
om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstr
eam.
net
> 

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40com
cast
.net

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%
40tasc.com