[nagdu] Consumer report

Tue Aug 24 21:52:17 UTC 2010

Julie,

I have attached a draft of survey questions- let me know if you get it, can
open it, etc.

Thanks

Cathryn Bonnette

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 8:11 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report

Cathryn,

Yes, very reasonable.

Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report

> Julie and all-
>
> Just a quick note on the third page on owner training-
> I think it could easily be a very simple and clean attention-getter. For
> example, before I joined this list, I didn't realize that the ADA doesn't
> require formal guide dog training from a school. I had no contact with 
> guide
> dog owners who have actually trained their own guides. If others are in
> similar situations, some introductory info could be very helpful.   . . . 
> .
> .
> Beyond that, why wouldn't contact details for a few resource people-
> consenting owner/trainers- be enough- at least for starters? Later, if 
> there
> is consensus on expanding that part of the resource, it can be done.
> Meanwhile the first 2 pages with policy and survey details permitting
> comparison "shopping" of the different schools can be completed and
> available to interested readers. Does that sound reasonable?
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> OK- back to studying and domestic details-
>
> Best,
>
> Cathryn (& Abby)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 7:52 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>
> Julie and Cathryn,
>
> Would you and anyone else who's interested like to run with this? 
> Honestly,
> it's something I've been tearing my hair over trying to get to, and now 
> that
> I'm close to that item on my to-do list, I'm tearing my hair during my
> rest/thinking breaks about how to get assistance and what to do, because
> here's what I would like to see...
>
> Which is exactly what you two are discussing and seem to be ready to run
> with!  I can live with scratching off future items on my to-do list 
> because
> someone else thought of it and done it.  /grin/
>
> As for decisions about what goes up on the site and what needs group
> discussion first and what needs to go through the Board...  I have some
> discretion to make executive decisions.  Technically, full discretion, 
> which
> means I need to be responsible enough to know what to edit or add and what
> to put the brakes on because if we're not careful, it will bite us on the
> ... well, you know what I'm saying.
>
> That's where that part of it stands now, but please do keep discussing it
> and giving your intelligent and thoughtful ideas of what you believe 
> should
> go through the Board and what should be webmaster (soon to be web team)
> discretion...
>
> Oh, and you're volunteering yourselves for the team by opening your 
> mouths.
> /grin/  Cheryl E. and I are working out a way that we can incorporate some
> of her ideas and materials into the site without crashing one or the other
> of two busy women in different time zones.  /smile/
>
> One of these days, we (NAGDU) will need to have a procedure and protocol 
> and
> all that for member contribution and what all...  For now, I'm just in
> heaven because people are offering up things so that I can scramble to get
> those last bits and pieces toether and...  I keep trying to keep this 
> short
> so I can get back to dashing between those computers to do those bits and
> pieces.  Keep up the good work and I love the disucssion.
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:15 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>
> Cathryn,
>
> I'm not sure if there are specific rules on approval from the board.  I
> wouldn't feel comfortable with doing such a project without their approval
> and endorsement though.
>
> A third info page on owner training could be added, but the amount of
> information to explain how step-by-step is probably more than can even be
> contained in a single book.  So the web page would have to be more of an
> overview thing or things to consider if a person is thinking about it.
>
> Julie
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>
>
>> Hi Julie
>>
>> As one who has been working on a manuscript for eons, far be it from me 
>> to
>> interfere with your plan, and more power to you!
>> So, if I understand correctly, we might proceed with a spread sheet with
>> page 1 containing  contact info, abbreviations for names, policies in
>> certain areas, and spread sheet  page 2 containing consumer feedback in
>> certain categories.
>>
>> Does a board of directors or similar body need to approve this? Sorry, 
>> I'm
>> not up on the actual organization of this group (yet).
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Cathryn Bonnette
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:04 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>> Cathryn,
>>
>> It sounds great!  The old NAGDU website did have the names and contact
>> info
>> of all the American guide dog schools and some of the international ones.
>> It would be easy enough to get particular program info like length of
>> training and ownership policies for each.  Although that will take a lot
>> of
>> time.
>>
>> The survey on consumer satisfaction will take quite a bit of time and
>> legwork to complete.  I still think it would be an excellent resource. 
>> If
>> NAGDU as a whole wants to go forward with it, I willing to work on it.
>>
>> but about the bit on owner training...unfortunately there is currently no
>> resource or training manual on how to do such a thing.  I'm working on
>> writing a book on the topic.  I am always happy to answer questions and
>> share my perspective on a particular area of owner training.  However the
>> honest truth is that I am hoping to sell the book not give it away.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>>
>>> Julie,
>>>
>>> What about a combined resource as a tool for those seeking to compare
>>> guide
>>> dog schools for training etc.? One page of the resource could be a list
>>> of
>>> questions as you listed with cells showing the number of respondents
>>> giving
>>> each answer with row and column totals.
>>> Another page could compare policies of the different schools in areas I
>>> listed. The combined effect would show what the schools require and
>>> provide
>>> according to their policies. The other page would show user responses 
>>> and
>>> satisfaction with performance of the schools. Anyone who reads the
>>> resource
>>> can decide what is most important to them and choose accordingly.
>>> Finally,
>>
>>> I
>>> can envision a separate page with information about owner trained guide
>>> dogs. This page could inform readers that the ADA does not require
>>> training
>>> from a school, and provide information about steps/resources for
>>> beginning
>>> to train your guide dog, sources for puppies, breeds and considerations,
>>> foods, harnesses, leashes, shampoos, grooming supplies, for all the
>>> different stages etc. etc. etc.
>>>
>>> Thus, the final result is a more sophisticated and well informed
>>> population
>>> of guide dog users who are no longer victims of guide dog schools, guide
>>> dog
>>> trainers, with all related attitudes toward "the blind" etc. This
>>> population
>>> will be enabled to take more control of their lives, to start deciding
>>> which
>>> breed they want, how long they will take off from work for guide dog
>>> training, whether they prefer to own their guide dog or not, etc. These
>>> are
>>> the obvious decisions most adults would expect to make about their own
>>> lives. How it has happened that human beings who happen to be blind have
>>> allowed some normally sighted "professionals" to maintain inappropriate
>>> control is beyond me! It doesn't matter- it needs to stop!
>>> JMHO
>>>
>>> Cathryn Bonnette
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Julie J
>>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:47 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>
>>> Cathryn,
>>>
>>> Yes, it does make sense.  However GDUI has already done an inventory of
>>> all
>>> this information.  It is very thorough.  I believe it was updated in
>>> 2006.
>>>
>>> What I am suggesting is more of a user satisfaction sort of thing.
>>> Questions might include:
>>> How well do you feel your dog was trained?
>>> How well do you feel your dog matches your lifestyle and needs?
>>> How well do you feel prepared to handle an access challenge?
>>> Does your dog have any health concerns?
>>> And so on.  A follow up survey could be done a year later to see if the
>>> team
>>>
>>> is still together.  There could also be additional questions about
>>> satisfaction with follow up services.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 6:25 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>
>>>
>>>> Tracy, Marion, and All,
>>>>
>>>> I think the idea of a consumer survey is excellent.
>>>>
>>>> A list of questions regarding policies could be presented in a table or
>>>> spread sheet format and be very informative to persons who re
>>>> considering
>>>> applying to a guide dog training school for the first time, to those 
>>>> who
>>>> are
>>>> returning after their first guide, to family and friends of guide dog
>>>> users,
>>>> etc.  One example of a policy question is the ownership status of guide
>>>> dogs
>>>> upon graduation. The guide dog schools could be asked for written or
>>>> electronic copies of their policies and a table compiled on that basis.
>>>> School contact persons, e-mails, telephone numbers, and addresses could
>>>> be
>>>> included in the table and/or there could be links to the schools' web
>>>> pages
>>>> embedded in the table.  Potentially, the draft table could be 
>>>> circulated
>>>> to
>>>> the schools for corrections/updates as needed.  This table of policy
>>>> comparisons could be posted on the NAGDU home page as a basic resource.
>>>> Also, a note included with the table could be a disclaimer that because
>>>> school policies can change periodically, interested applicants should
>>>> contact the schools directly for copies of their current policies.
>>>> Example policy areas might include, but are not limited to, the
>>>> following:
>>>>
>>>> Entry requirements (check all that apply)
>>>> Medical report
>>>> Eye doctor's report
>>>> Recommendations (number required if applicable)
>>>> Video
>>>> Orientation and mobility report
>>>> Etc.
>>>>
>>>> Local Home training
>>>> (Yes/No)
>>>>
>>>> Guide Dog ownership upon successful graduation
>>>> (Check one. School/Guide Dog User)
>>>>
>>>> And so on.
>>>>
>>>> Does this make sense to anyone?
>>>>
>>>> JMHO
>>>>
>>>> Cathryn Bonnette
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:47 AM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>>
>>>> I think some kind of consumer report would be great, though I don't 
>>>> know
>>>> how it could be done right.
>>>> When I read "A Guide to Guide Dog Schools", it made some schools who
>>>> have
>>>> a bad reputation sound great, and some with a good reputation sound 
>>>> bad,
>>>> so plain statistics don't really do the job.
>>>> Then you have those who think their school can do no wrong, and those
>>>> who
>>>> have an axe to grind from something school X did 20 or 30 years ago.
>>>> And
>>>> those who are reluctant to talk about problems.  I find myself 
>>>> sometimes
>>>> hesitant to "air dirty laundry in public."  But, if someone can figure
>>>> out
>>>> how to get around those problems, a consumer report would be a very 
>>>> good
>>>> thing.
>>>> Though of course it would have to be updated from time to time, as
>>>> schools' policies and training change.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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