[nagdu] Consumer report

Julie J julielj at windstream.net
Fri Aug 27 12:36:48 UTC 2010 

Cathryn,

Sorry, I've been super busy with no end in sight in the foreseeable future. 
School is back in session, which increases my workload.  Add in a few new 
programs I'm getting started at work, a water leak kitchen disaster, harvest 
season coming up and a million other details...and well I'm feeling a bit 
frazzled. *smile*

I will take a look at the questions and let you know what I think as soon as 
I possibly can.  Would you be willing to give Marion a call to see what he 
thinks about this project?  If he isn't supportive or doesn't think it a 
good fit for NAGDU, I don't think we should go forward with it.

Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report


> Julie,
>
> I have attached a draft of survey questions- let me know if you get it, 
> can
> open it, etc.
>
> Thanks
>
> Cathryn Bonnette
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 8:11 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>
> Cathryn,
>
> Yes, very reasonable.
>
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 8:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>
>
>> Julie and all-
>>
>> Just a quick note on the third page on owner training-
>> I think it could easily be a very simple and clean attention-getter. For
>> example, before I joined this list, I didn't realize that the ADA doesn't
>> require formal guide dog training from a school. I had no contact with
>> guide
>> dog owners who have actually trained their own guides. If others are in
>> similar situations, some introductory info could be very helpful.   . . .
>> .
>> .
>> Beyond that, why wouldn't contact details for a few resource people-
>> consenting owner/trainers- be enough- at least for starters? Later, if
>> there
>> is consensus on expanding that part of the resource, it can be done.
>> Meanwhile the first 2 pages with policy and survey details permitting
>> comparison "shopping" of the different schools can be completed and
>> available to interested readers. Does that sound reasonable?
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>>
>> OK- back to studying and domestic details-
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Cathryn (& Abby)
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 7:52 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>> Julie and Cathryn,
>>
>> Would you and anyone else who's interested like to run with this?
>> Honestly,
>> it's something I've been tearing my hair over trying to get to, and now
>> that
>> I'm close to that item on my to-do list, I'm tearing my hair during my
>> rest/thinking breaks about how to get assistance and what to do, because
>> here's what I would like to see...
>>
>> Which is exactly what you two are discussing and seem to be ready to run
>> with!  I can live with scratching off future items on my to-do list
>> because
>> someone else thought of it and done it.  /grin/
>>
>> As for decisions about what goes up on the site and what needs group
>> discussion first and what needs to go through the Board...  I have some
>> discretion to make executive decisions.  Technically, full discretion,
>> which
>> means I need to be responsible enough to know what to edit or add and 
>> what
>> to put the brakes on because if we're not careful, it will bite us on the
>> ... well, you know what I'm saying.
>>
>> That's where that part of it stands now, but please do keep discussing it
>> and giving your intelligent and thoughtful ideas of what you believe
>> should
>> go through the Board and what should be webmaster (soon to be web team)
>> discretion...
>>
>> Oh, and you're volunteering yourselves for the team by opening your
>> mouths.
>> /grin/  Cheryl E. and I are working out a way that we can incorporate 
>> some
>> of her ideas and materials into the site without crashing one or the 
>> other
>> of two busy women in different time zones.  /smile/
>>
>> One of these days, we (NAGDU) will need to have a procedure and protocol
>> and
>> all that for member contribution and what all...  For now, I'm just in
>> heaven because people are offering up things so that I can scramble to 
>> get
>> those last bits and pieces toether and...  I keep trying to keep this
>> short
>> so I can get back to dashing between those computers to do those bits and
>> pieces.  Keep up the good work and I love the disucssion.
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:15 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>> Cathryn,
>>
>> I'm not sure if there are specific rules on approval from the board.  I
>> wouldn't feel comfortable with doing such a project without their 
>> approval
>> and endorsement though.
>>
>> A third info page on owner training could be added, but the amount of
>> information to explain how step-by-step is probably more than can even be
>> contained in a single book.  So the web page would have to be more of an
>> overview thing or things to consider if a person is thinking about it.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>>
>>> Hi Julie
>>>
>>> As one who has been working on a manuscript for eons, far be it from me
>>> to
>>> interfere with your plan, and more power to you!
>>> So, if I understand correctly, we might proceed with a spread sheet with
>>> page 1 containing  contact info, abbreviations for names, policies in
>>> certain areas, and spread sheet  page 2 containing consumer feedback in
>>> certain categories.
>>>
>>> Does a board of directors or similar body need to approve this? Sorry,
>>> I'm
>>> not up on the actual organization of this group (yet).
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Cathryn Bonnette
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Julie J
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:04 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>
>>> Cathryn,
>>>
>>> It sounds great!  The old NAGDU website did have the names and contact
>>> info
>>> of all the American guide dog schools and some of the international 
>>> ones.
>>> It would be easy enough to get particular program info like length of
>>> training and ownership policies for each.  Although that will take a lot
>>> of
>>> time.
>>>
>>> The survey on consumer satisfaction will take quite a bit of time and
>>> legwork to complete.  I still think it would be an excellent resource.
>>> If
>>> NAGDU as a whole wants to go forward with it, I willing to work on it.
>>>
>>> but about the bit on owner training...unfortunately there is currently 
>>> no
>>> resource or training manual on how to do such a thing.  I'm working on
>>> writing a book on the topic.  I am always happy to answer questions and
>>> share my perspective on a particular area of owner training.  However 
>>> the
>>> honest truth is that I am hoping to sell the book not give it away.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:54 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>
>>>
>>>> Julie,
>>>>
>>>> What about a combined resource as a tool for those seeking to compare
>>>> guide
>>>> dog schools for training etc.? One page of the resource could be a list
>>>> of
>>>> questions as you listed with cells showing the number of respondents
>>>> giving
>>>> each answer with row and column totals.
>>>> Another page could compare policies of the different schools in areas I
>>>> listed. The combined effect would show what the schools require and
>>>> provide
>>>> according to their policies. The other page would show user responses
>>>> and
>>>> satisfaction with performance of the schools. Anyone who reads the
>>>> resource
>>>> can decide what is most important to them and choose accordingly.
>>>> Finally,
>>>
>>>> I
>>>> can envision a separate page with information about owner trained guide
>>>> dogs. This page could inform readers that the ADA does not require
>>>> training
>>>> from a school, and provide information about steps/resources for
>>>> beginning
>>>> to train your guide dog, sources for puppies, breeds and 
>>>> considerations,
>>>> foods, harnesses, leashes, shampoos, grooming supplies, for all the
>>>> different stages etc. etc. etc.
>>>>
>>>> Thus, the final result is a more sophisticated and well informed
>>>> population
>>>> of guide dog users who are no longer victims of guide dog schools, 
>>>> guide
>>>> dog
>>>> trainers, with all related attitudes toward "the blind" etc. This
>>>> population
>>>> will be enabled to take more control of their lives, to start deciding
>>>> which
>>>> breed they want, how long they will take off from work for guide dog
>>>> training, whether they prefer to own their guide dog or not, etc. These
>>>> are
>>>> the obvious decisions most adults would expect to make about their own
>>>> lives. How it has happened that human beings who happen to be blind 
>>>> have
>>>> allowed some normally sighted "professionals" to maintain inappropriate
>>>> control is beyond me! It doesn't matter- it needs to stop!
>>>> JMHO
>>>>
>>>> Cathryn Bonnette
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Julie J
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:47 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>>
>>>> Cathryn,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it does make sense.  However GDUI has already done an inventory of
>>>> all
>>>> this information.  It is very thorough.  I believe it was updated in
>>>> 2006.
>>>>
>>>> What I am suggesting is more of a user satisfaction sort of thing.
>>>> Questions might include:
>>>> How well do you feel your dog was trained?
>>>> How well do you feel your dog matches your lifestyle and needs?
>>>> How well do you feel prepared to handle an access challenge?
>>>> Does your dog have any health concerns?
>>>> And so on.  A follow up survey could be done a year later to see if the
>>>> team
>>>>
>>>> is still together.  There could also be additional questions about
>>>> satisfaction with follow up services.
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 6:25 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Tracy, Marion, and All,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the idea of a consumer survey is excellent.
>>>>>
>>>>> A list of questions regarding policies could be presented in a table 
>>>>> or
>>>>> spread sheet format and be very informative to persons who re
>>>>> considering
>>>>> applying to a guide dog training school for the first time, to those
>>>>> who
>>>>> are
>>>>> returning after their first guide, to family and friends of guide dog
>>>>> users,
>>>>> etc.  One example of a policy question is the ownership status of 
>>>>> guide
>>>>> dogs
>>>>> upon graduation. The guide dog schools could be asked for written or
>>>>> electronic copies of their policies and a table compiled on that 
>>>>> basis.
>>>>> School contact persons, e-mails, telephone numbers, and addresses 
>>>>> could
>>>>> be
>>>>> included in the table and/or there could be links to the schools' web
>>>>> pages
>>>>> embedded in the table.  Potentially, the draft table could be
>>>>> circulated
>>>>> to
>>>>> the schools for corrections/updates as needed.  This table of policy
>>>>> comparisons could be posted on the NAGDU home page as a basic 
>>>>> resource.
>>>>> Also, a note included with the table could be a disclaimer that 
>>>>> because
>>>>> school policies can change periodically, interested applicants should
>>>>> contact the schools directly for copies of their current policies.
>>>>> Example policy areas might include, but are not limited to, the
>>>>> following:
>>>>>
>>>>> Entry requirements (check all that apply)
>>>>> Medical report
>>>>> Eye doctor's report
>>>>> Recommendations (number required if applicable)
>>>>> Video
>>>>> Orientation and mobility report
>>>>> Etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Local Home training
>>>>> (Yes/No)
>>>>>
>>>>> Guide Dog ownership upon successful graduation
>>>>> (Check one. School/Guide Dog User)
>>>>>
>>>>> And so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this make sense to anyone?
>>>>>
>>>>> JMHO
>>>>>
>>>>> Cathryn Bonnette
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:47 AM
>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>>>
>>>>> I think some kind of consumer report would be great, though I don't
>>>>> know
>>>>> how it could be done right.
>>>>> When I read "A Guide to Guide Dog Schools", it made some schools who
>>>>> have
>>>>> a bad reputation sound great, and some with a good reputation sound
>>>>> bad,
>>>>> so plain statistics don't really do the job.
>>>>> Then you have those who think their school can do no wrong, and those
>>>>> who
>>>>> have an axe to grind from something school X did 20 or 30 years ago.
>>>>> And
>>>>> those who are reluctant to talk about problems.  I find myself
>>>>> sometimes
>>>>> hesitant to "air dirty laundry in public."  But, if someone can figure
>>>>> out
>>>>> how to get around those problems, a consumer report would be a very
>>>>> good
>>>>> thing.
>>>>> Though of course it would have to be updated from time to time, as
>>>>> schools' policies and training change.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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