[nagdu] Hawaii

Wed Dec 8 22:20:24 UTC 2010

Julie,
    I think you need an I.D. card to prove you are a woman protected by the 
Civil rights Act of 1964. Should a black man carry an I.D. card assuring 
those who wish to know that he is really African American. What if he is 
African Jamaican? Does he get a different card? Should my friend have her 
wheelchair certified as a legitimate wheelchair under the ADA. What about 
that guys prosthetic leg? Is it a certified leg? In that case, do I need a 
card to prove I am blind or should they just take my word for it? Where 
would it all stop?

Fraternally yours,
Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii


> Jordan,
>
> Okay, how is this going to work exactly?
>
> I owner train my guides. Not self train.  the dog doesn't train itself. 
> I'm interested to know how certification could work.
>
> How I work my dogs is probably different from the way the dogs from a 
> program work.  What about someone who has some useable vision and uses 
> their dog as a low vision aid?  Who is going to certify me and/or my dog? 
> How is that going to not violate my civil rights?  Who is going to pay for 
> this certification?  How does this certification prove that in two months 
> or under different circumstances my dog is going to behave?  What criteria 
> are going to be used in this certification?  Where is this harness going 
> to come from?  Who is going to pay for it?  What if it doesn't fit my 
> needs?
>
> I'm all for wedding out the fraudulent service dog handlers and/or ill 
> behaved service dogs, but I cannot figure out how this could work while 
> respecting everyone's civil rights.
>
> Julie
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
>
>> This is where the ADA needs to be changed.  All someone can ask is is 
>> that a
>> service animal.  Well, there really should be a requirement that even 
>> self
>> trained service animals are licensed with an official i.d. card, such as
>> something that states that it is a service animal. And two, if it is a 
>> self
>> trained animal, you should need to have the dog pass an examination, 
>> working
>> wise, and then issued a harness that says something like certified 
>> service
>> animal.  And also, the ADA should be changed to allow someone to ask for
>> documentation.
>> Jordan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Jenine Stanley
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:08 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>
>> Thanks much Julie.
>>
>> I think we would all like to simply travel to anywhere in the world 
>> without
>> restrictions but reality doesn't always permit that.
>>
>> The reason there are in fact such requirements as submission of titer 
>> tests
>> and a health certificate is that the vaccine has not been 100% proven to
>> prevent Rabies. In the opinion of the Hawaiian government, this is not
>> sufficient to insure the safety of the state. Although federal law 
>> regarding
>> access rights and other civil rights does trump state law in most cases,
>> when it comes to public health, things get messy.
>>
>> The other issue rearing its ugly head is fraud. We all know Julie and her
>> dog and that she is a competent owner-trainer. What about the guy who 
>> buys a
>> harness on line, and there are lots of places one can do just that, or a
>> service dog vest or patches, and calls his well behaved family pet his
>> service dog, just so it can go to Hawaii with him on vacation. During 
>> that
>> vacation, the dog is allowed to run on the beach and maybe even around 
>> the
>> time share property freely as a pet, because after all, what do pets do?
>>
>> This scenario did actually play out. I got a phone call at 11:00pm one 
>> night
>> from someone in the Hawaii Quarantine office. Someone had come through 
>> the
>> airport with a dog claiming it was a guide dog, but the airline knew 
>> nothing
>> about it, allowed the person on the plane, big no-no to start, and then
>> didn't notify the quarantine office about the person's arrival. The dog 
>> was
>> not a guide and was never tracked down. The airline admitted they screwed 
>> up
>> in not asking any questions, but did assure the quarantine office that 
>> the
>> person wasn't blind. How they knew this is a mystery to me, but let's 
>> just
>> say the Hawaiian government was not happy.
>>
>> The reason I got this call was that they were trying to figure out if the
>> guide dog schools or GDUI kept a registry of people and could they check
>> names against it. I said that each school had a list of its active
>> graduates, but they'd have to call each one to find this out. Let's just 
>> say
>> that time was of the essence and they were not in the mood to deal with
>> this. It happened shortly after the settlement went into place so I 
>> suspect
>> someone read all the PR articles and thought, ehy, let me try this.
>>
>> Though I'd love to have a way for people to get into Hawaii with the 
>> least
>> amount of paperwork, some is going to be necessary. I think local 
>> licensing
>> as an assistance dog will work in terms of proof of identity but I'll 
>> need
>> to check that one out. Local licensing is about the only means someone 
>> who
>> owner trains has of proof of identity anyway if he or she wants to travel 
>> to
>> another country that has such a quarantine or other ID requirements.
>>
>> I suspect that as budgets tighten around the country, the less paperwork
>> required and the less staff time required to achieve anything will win 
>> out.
>> So, you never know what or how the requirements will be changed.
>>
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:13 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>
>> Jordan and Dan,
>>
>> I have pretty well stayed out of the Hawaii debate this time around. 
>> We've
>> talked about it in the past and I've been free with my opinion.  So I 
>> guess
>> I'll throw caution to the wind and share my thoughts. *smile*
>>
>> I agree with the two of you.  It isn't fair that people with guide dogs 
>> have
>>
>> to go through so many extra steps to travel to Hawaii.  furthermore as an
>> owner trainer, I am unsure that it is even possible for me to travel to
>> Hawaii.  I am very much in favor of improving ease of travel to Hawaii.
>>
>> but I'm also torn because Hawaii is rabies free.  I can understand how
>> devastating it would be to introduce rabies to the islands.  However I 
>> would
>>
>> think that proof of the vaccine or proof of immunity through a titer test
>> would be sufficient.  not sure how to accomplish that without some sort 
>> of
>> extra paperwork requirement.
>>
>> I would also like to acknowledge the great work Of Jenine Stanly and GDUI
>> for working diligently to improve the situation.  I don't think it's fair 
>> to
>>
>> expect massive social change overnight, but Jenine made an incredible 
>> leap
>> forward from where things were previously in Hawaii.  I totally 
>> completely
>> agree with her when she talked about getting as much as they could in the
>> settlement and working on the rest later.   "It is better to do something
>> imperfectly than nothing perfectly." that's a quote I read yesterday, 
>> sorry
>> I can't remember whose quote it is.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>
>>
>>> Thanks Dan.   You seem to be one of the few on this group who see things
>>> the
>>> same way I do.
>>> Jordan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Dan Weiner
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:15 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>
>>> What is of concern to me, Dan, anyway, is that we have to show any
>>> paperwork, have international health certificates, blood tests, and so 
>>> on,
>>> for a state of the USA in order to be accompanied by our guide dogs.
>>> This is something I've only had to do when I travel to other countries. 
>>> If
>>
>>> I
>>> had to do this every time I traveled to another state here, I'd be 
>>> forced
>>> not to bring my dog with me often and I'm a safer traveler with a dog.
>>>
>>> Yes, I know it may never be resolved, but that's my opinion and what I 
>>> at
>>> least find objectionable.
>>>
>>> Dan W.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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