[nagdu] Hawaii

Thu Dec 9 13:52:53 UTC 2010

There already is such a thing. It's called a local dog license tag. And no,
it still won't suffice for access to Hawaii. Good idea and workable for
access to other places like TSA screening as spelled out in the
Rehabilitation Act, but not where public health issues are concerned such as
Hawaii. 

Not all localities have the designation of service animal or, as in Ohio,
"Handicap assistance Dog", but they do usually have this fact about the dog
on file if indeed you claim it as a service animal. This is why I encourage
people to get licenses. Even those who owner train, if your local area
doesn't have a provision for licensing owner trained dogs, there are enough
examples of them around, including the one for Franklin County, Ohio, that
I'd be happy to share. 

It's not going to prevent fraud immediately as having to show such ID is not
legal under the ADA where it applies, but in some situations, such as TSA,
it would certainly help. It can't hurt at any rate. 

Jenine Stanley
jeninems at wowway.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Albert J Rizzi
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:41 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii

That sounds totally reasonable and would certainly alleviate and expedite
any and all issue around the Hawaii thing and violations of public access
laws, either due to denial of access or for those attempting to pass their
animals off as service animals. Yet I am sensing that even this sound
suggestion would be thwarted and objected to. why are we so hung up on
seeing this as an invasion of privacy and not as a solidification   and
galvanization of our civil rights to ensure our equal and unencumbered
access to all things and places, even Hawaii 

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."

Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Mark J. Cadigan
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:14 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii

Does anyone think it would eliminate several problems if there was a special

service dog dog-tag on the collar of the service dog? This tag would have a 
number on it, that when looked up in a database would contain the dog's 
medical records and something that says it is a service dog and what tasks 
it is trained for along with the handler's name and address. I think any 
more information would be an invasion of privacy.  This information could 
also be contained in some sort of machine readable chip, less the handler's 
name and address, so that when going into an airport or the like, the 
machine can verify the authenticity of the service dog remotely. Opposed to 
being a certification, this would be more of a registration.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii

> Well what is your take on having to produce a license if you are a driver 
> of
> an automobile or then again what is your take on passports and papers for
> that matter proving citizenship. There is no comparison to the plight of 
> the
> holocaust in that the identification was used for genocide  not for 
> allowing
> equal access or ensuring that the fool behind you with his pit bull or his
> snake or her chicken has a valid service animal.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:48 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
> Uh...no, not really.  blind people are just as capable of taking a pet 
> into
> public as anyone else.
>
> Having to prove my blindness and carry a card kind of reminds me of the
> stars the Jews had to wear under Hitler.
>
> The ADA clearly states that it is the training of the dog in skills that
> mitigate the handlers disability that make it a service dog.
>
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 12:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
>
>> I've changed from what I was thinking origionally.  The thing that could
>> work, since those of us who either don't want to or don't have time to
>> train
>> our own dog, go to a school and have to present proof of disability,
>> well,
>> if those who owner train had to present proof of disability and get a
>> harness made that indicates that the animal is a service animal along 
>> with
>> getting an I.D. card with proof of disability, that may work.  Then it
>> would
>> be quite a bit harder for someone to take a pet into a business 
>> especially
>> if the law was changed to reflect the above.  Basically, it would require
>> that somewhere on the harness it indicated clearly that the dog is a
>> service
>> dog and not a pet.
>> Jordan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 12:21 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>
>> Julie,
>>
>> My thing is that I think it would be just dandy to crack down on the
>> frauds
>> when they're caught and fine them to within an inch of their lives or
>> throw
>> them in jail, stuff like that.  Can't remember right now what penalties
>> are
>> in the law, but I'm thinking there are some.
>>
>> That way, they're cracking down on the people who are breaking the law
>> instead of cracking down on those who are.
>>
>> Kinda over simplistic, I know, but I get irritable over new rules to make
>> up
>> for the fact the existing rules aren't enforced, so people break them...
>> it
>> just seems silly and annoying.
>>
>> I feel a lot that way about access issues, too.  If the law is there but
>> it
>> takes a zillion years in court to have it enforced, then I guess that
>> tells
>> me why I just need to plan to have to deal with stupid access issues from
>> someone who knows the law and just doesn't want to follow it.  Sigh.
>>
>> Maybe my thinking is out of whack, but I seem to notice in articles about
>> issues in other countries, the fines are steep and are levied right quick
>> by
>> the relevant authorities.  This doesn't seem to be the case so much
>> here...
>> I've never had to call in the authorities over an access issue (yet), but
>> when I get a whiff that one might be coming up, I really wonder if 
>> calling
>> them in will do anything to improve my situation.  Depends on the cop, I
>> guess.  I'm not that eager to find out how our local police do when
>> there's
>> a line-in-the-sand confrontation.  I just wish I could rest assured about
>> the matter, just in case.  /smile/
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:04 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>
>> Jordan,
>>
>> Okay, how is this going to work exactly?
>>
>> I owner train my guides. Not self train.  the dog doesn't train itself.
>> I'm
>>
>> interested to know how certification could work.
>>
>> How I work my dogs is probably different from the way the dogs from a
>> program work.  What about someone who has some useable vision and uses
>> their
>>
>> dog as a low vision aid?  Who is going to certify me and/or my dog?  How
>> is
>> that going to not violate my civil rights?  Who is going to pay for this
>> certification?  How does this certification prove that in two months or
>> under different circumstances my dog is going to behave?  What criteria
>> are
>> going to be used in this certification?  Where is this harness going to
>> come
>>
>> from?  Who is going to pay for it?  What if it doesn't fit my needs?
>>
>> I'm all for wedding out the fraudulent service dog handlers and/or ill
>> behaved service dogs, but I cannot figure out how this could work while
>> respecting everyone's civil rights.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:49 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>
>>
>>> This is where the ADA needs to be changed.  All someone can ask is is
>>> that
>>
>>> a
>>> service animal.  Well, there really should be a requirement that even
>>> self
>>> trained service animals are licensed with an official i.d. card, such as
>>> something that states that it is a service animal. And two, if it is a
>>> self
>>> trained animal, you should need to have the dog pass an examination,
>>> working
>>> wise, and then issued a harness that says something like certified
>>> service
>>> animal.  And also, the ADA should be changed to allow someone to ask for
>>> documentation.
>>> Jordan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Jenine Stanley
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:08 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>
>>> Thanks much Julie.
>>>
>>> I think we would all like to simply travel to anywhere in the world
>>> without
>>> restrictions but reality doesn't always permit that.
>>>
>>> The reason there are in fact such requirements as submission of titer
>>> tests
>>> and a health certificate is that the vaccine has not been 100% proven to
>>> prevent Rabies. In the opinion of the Hawaiian government, this is not
>>> sufficient to insure the safety of the state. Although federal law
>>> regarding
>>> access rights and other civil rights does trump state law in most cases,
>>> when it comes to public health, things get messy.
>>>
>>> The other issue rearing its ugly head is fraud. We all know Julie and 
>>> her
>>> dog and that she is a competent owner-trainer. What about the guy who
>>> buys
>>
>>> a
>>> harness on line, and there are lots of places one can do just that, or a
>>> service dog vest or patches, and calls his well behaved family pet his
>>> service dog, just so it can go to Hawaii with him on vacation. During
>>> that
>>> vacation, the dog is allowed to run on the beach and maybe even around
>>> the
>>> time share property freely as a pet, because after all, what do pets do?
>>>
>>> This scenario did actually play out. I got a phone call at 11:00pm one
>>> night
>>> from someone in the Hawaii Quarantine office. Someone had come through
>>> the
>>> airport with a dog claiming it was a guide dog, but the airline knew
>>> nothing
>>> about it, allowed the person on the plane, big no-no to start, and then
>>> didn't notify the quarantine office about the person's arrival. The dog
>>> was
>>> not a guide and was never tracked down. The airline admitted they 
>>> screwed
>>> up
>>> in not asking any questions, but did assure the quarantine office that
>>> the
>>> person wasn't blind. How they knew this is a mystery to me, but let's
>>> just
>>> say the Hawaiian government was not happy.
>>>
>>> The reason I got this call was that they were trying to figure out if 
>>> the
>>> guide dog schools or GDUI kept a registry of people and could they check
>>> names against it. I said that each school had a list of its active
>>> graduates, but they'd have to call each one to find this out. Let's just
>>> say
>>> that time was of the essence and they were not in the mood to deal with
>>> this. It happened shortly after the settlement went into place so I
>>> suspect
>>> someone read all the PR articles and thought, ehy, let me try this.
>>>
>>> Though I'd love to have a way for people to get into Hawaii with the
>>> least
>>> amount of paperwork, some is going to be necessary. I think local
>>> licensing
>>> as an assistance dog will work in terms of proof of identity but I'll
>>> need
>>> to check that one out. Local licensing is about the only means someone
>>> who
>>> owner trains has of proof of identity anyway if he or she wants to 
>>> travel
>>> to
>>> another country that has such a quarantine or other ID requirements.
>>>
>>> I suspect that as budgets tighten around the country, the less paperwork
>>> required and the less staff time required to achieve anything will win
>>> out.
>>> So, you never know what or how the requirements will be changed.
>>>
>>> Jenine Stanley
>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Julie J
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:13 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>
>>> Jordan and Dan,
>>>
>>> I have pretty well stayed out of the Hawaii debate this time around.
>>> We've
>>> talked about it in the past and I've been free with my opinion.  So I
>>> guess
>>> I'll throw caution to the wind and share my thoughts. *smile*
>>>
>>> I agree with the two of you.  It isn't fair that people with guide dogs
>>> have
>>>
>>> to go through so many extra steps to travel to Hawaii.  furthermore as 
>>> an
>>> owner trainer, I am unsure that it is even possible for me to travel to
>>> Hawaii.  I am very much in favor of improving ease of travel to Hawaii.
>>>
>>> but I'm also torn because Hawaii is rabies free.  I can understand how
>>> devastating it would be to introduce rabies to the islands.  However I
>>> would
>>>
>>> think that proof of the vaccine or proof of immunity through a titer 
>>> test
>>> would be sufficient.  not sure how to accomplish that without some sort
>>> of
>>> extra paperwork requirement.
>>>
>>> I would also like to acknowledge the great work Of Jenine Stanly and 
>>> GDUI
>>> for working diligently to improve the situation.  I don't think it's 
>>> fair
>>> to
>>>
>>> expect massive social change overnight, but Jenine made an incredible
>>> leap
>>> forward from where things were previously in Hawaii.  I totally
>>> completely
>>> agree with her when she talked about getting as much as they could in 
>>> the
>>> settlement and working on the rest later.   "It is better to do 
>>> something
>>> imperfectly than nothing perfectly." that's a quote I read yesterday,
>>> sorry
>>> I can't remember whose quote it is.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:51 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks Dan.   You seem to be one of the few on this group who see 
>>>> things
>>>> the
>>>> same way I do.
>>>> Jordan
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Dan Weiner
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:15 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>>
>>>> What is of concern to me, Dan, anyway, is that we have to show any
>>>> paperwork, have international health certificates, blood tests, and so
>>>> on,
>>>> for a state of the USA in order to be accompanied by our guide dogs.
>>>> This is something I've only had to do when I travel to other countries.
>>>> If
>>>
>>>> I
>>>> had to do this every time I traveled to another state here, I'd be
>>>> forced
>>>> not to bring my dog with me often and I'm a safer traveler with a dog.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I know it may never be resolved, but that's my opinion and what I
>>>> at
>>>> least find objectionable.
>>>>
>>>> Dan W.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jgallacher1987%40gmai
>>>> l.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream.
>>> net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40wowway.com
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3302 - Release Date: 12/07/10
>>> 14:34:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jgallacher1987%40gmai
>>> l.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream.
>> net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
>> .net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jgallacher1987%40gmai
>> l.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream.
> net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
> org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
org

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40wowway.com
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3302 - Release Date: 12/08/10
02:34:00