[nagdu] owner trained dogs
Tamara Smith-Kinney
tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Thu Dec 9 19:47:52 UTC 2010
Albert,
I'm not sure how one would go about gathering useful statistics on
owner-trainers with working service animals. Since we just sorta do it, we
don't leave much of a paper trail. /smile/ I know the other owner-trainers
I know (and you know most of them, too), and I know of other owner-trainers
they know, but that's still not very many people. /smile/
As one of the people who *would* be impacted by having to have my dog
certified in order to use her just as you do your program trained dog,
though, I gotta tell you...
I do not have a problem with denial of access. In fact, I've been pretty
fortunate in having only a few minor ones that were easily resolved by
talking. I felt very annoyed, but I got what I wanted and everybody was
happy and in every case the person who wasn't so sure about letting us in
was impressed with Mitzi and how we interact... No harm, no foul.
I joke about Mitzi's snot monster side, but she's actually a pretty awesome
guide dog, and even in training learned quickly and knew which boundaries
not to cross. She's very active and curious, and that unbounded energy of
her puppy hood and adolescence made me despair of every getting her to be
still long enough to guide me indoors, but she learned and grew up.
So, to me, a dialogue about certification is pointless, but it has nothing
to do with access rights for me or anyone. The law covers us all by
creating the definition based on training and work. It also, as I've ever
read it, puts responsibility on us for our service animals' behavior and
cleanliness. Which I personally don't feel I need a law to tell me, but it
makes sense.
My only real dissatisfaction with her public behavior is that there are days
I feel like I'm the geeky sidekick to a stinkin' prom queen, especially when
she shines up the tiara and puts on that prom queen smile, but it's always
happy attention we get. I've just spent the majority of my life being quite
content to move through the world without being the center of attention.
I've had friends like her would draw people in very much the way she does,
but while everybody was flocking to them, I could fade into the background
and watch the show. /lol/ With Mitzi, I'm part of the show and it still
gives me a bit of a wiggins sometimes. I gotta admit, even then, it is
pretty funny the way she works a crowd. And it's actually a good chance for
me to educate by giving information about her and guide dogs in general in a
light-hearted, friendly environment. Then when the show is over and we move
along everybody oohs and aahs over the way she does such extraordinary
things as going forward! /lol/ Usually, I'm looking for an escape where I
can hide in the shadows and catch my breath, so she does get to show off her
"find the door," which does with great flare apparently. /lol/ She's also
introduced me to some business contacts and even friends I wouldn't have
ever noticed if not for her. So I guess geeking along with my little social
butterfly is actually a pretty good thing. And she does read a crowd. When
we walk into a formal setting, she is all business and hoity-toity manners.
I'm still the geeky sidekick. /smile/
This owner-trainer *would* be negatively affected by needing to acquire
certification in order to use my guide dog the same way you do yours. Or do
you think I wouldn't have to pay a fee for that? The fee, would of course,
include administrative costs of the agency providing the certification. You
can pretty well bet that I would have to go to them, where ever their office
happened to be in my state. I would have to fill out a lot of printed
forms. Even where I live now, that's a good 6 to 8 hours, including
transportation, out of my life. I would probably also need a special
veterinarian's report just for that certification. Which, of course, I
would get to pay for, too. No doubt, I would need both a special physical
exam and eye exam to verify my disability status for them. Oh, goodie!
More money to spend. And then I would have to be tested and have my dog
tested, I guess, by a mid-level civil servant whom somebody decided was
qualified to be called and expert and paid money to determine whether I
could use my guide dog as a guide dog.
Thanks, but no thanks!
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Albert J Rizzi
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 2:58 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: [nagdu] owner trained dogs
Are there any statistics on how many handlers are out there in the country
who in fact train their own dogs? The last figure I heard tell of about how
many guide dog users there are presently in the states number only 11,000.
how many people would truthfully be impacted by a certification process of
sorts and if the numbers are significant then that would be taken into
consideration so as to avoid these pointless and endless dialogues on
denial of access, or at least move us closer to a sensible resolution for
all affected and effected in this regard.
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."
Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion Gwizdala
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:14 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
Jordan,
This will never happen and, if it does, NAGDU would oppose it! There are
provisions in place to protect the public and we have too many
owner-trainers for such governmental impositions!
fraternally yours,
Marion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> This is where the ADA needs to be changed. All someone can ask is is that
> a
> service animal. Well, there really should be a requirement that even self
> trained service animals are licensed with an official i.d. card, such as
> something that states that it is a service animal. And two, if it is a
> self
> trained animal, you should need to have the dog pass an examination,
> working
> wise, and then issued a harness that says something like certified service
> animal. And also, the ADA should be changed to allow someone to ask for
> documentation.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Jenine Stanley
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:08 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
> Thanks much Julie.
>
> I think we would all like to simply travel to anywhere in the world
> without
> restrictions but reality doesn't always permit that.
>
> The reason there are in fact such requirements as submission of titer
> tests
> and a health certificate is that the vaccine has not been 100% proven to
> prevent Rabies. In the opinion of the Hawaiian government, this is not
> sufficient to insure the safety of the state. Although federal law
> regarding
> access rights and other civil rights does trump state law in most cases,
> when it comes to public health, things get messy.
>
> The other issue rearing its ugly head is fraud. We all know Julie and her
> dog and that she is a competent owner-trainer. What about the guy who buys
> a
> harness on line, and there are lots of places one can do just that, or a
> service dog vest or patches, and calls his well behaved family pet his
> service dog, just so it can go to Hawaii with him on vacation. During that
> vacation, the dog is allowed to run on the beach and maybe even around the
> time share property freely as a pet, because after all, what do pets do?
>
> This scenario did actually play out. I got a phone call at 11:00pm one
> night
> from someone in the Hawaii Quarantine office. Someone had come through the
> airport with a dog claiming it was a guide dog, but the airline knew
> nothing
> about it, allowed the person on the plane, big no-no to start, and then
> didn't notify the quarantine office about the person's arrival. The dog
> was
> not a guide and was never tracked down. The airline admitted they screwed
> up
> in not asking any questions, but did assure the quarantine office that the
> person wasn't blind. How they knew this is a mystery to me, but let's just
> say the Hawaiian government was not happy.
>
> The reason I got this call was that they were trying to figure out if the
> guide dog schools or GDUI kept a registry of people and could they check
> names against it. I said that each school had a list of its active
> graduates, but they'd have to call each one to find this out. Let's just
> say
> that time was of the essence and they were not in the mood to deal with
> this. It happened shortly after the settlement went into place so I
> suspect
> someone read all the PR articles and thought, ehy, let me try this.
>
> Though I'd love to have a way for people to get into Hawaii with the least
> amount of paperwork, some is going to be necessary. I think local
> licensing
> as an assistance dog will work in terms of proof of identity but I'll need
> to check that one out. Local licensing is about the only means someone who
> owner trains has of proof of identity anyway if he or she wants to travel
> to
> another country that has such a quarantine or other ID requirements.
>
> I suspect that as budgets tighten around the country, the less paperwork
> required and the less staff time required to achieve anything will win
> out.
> So, you never know what or how the requirements will be changed.
>
> Jenine Stanley
> jeninems at wowway.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:13 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
> Jordan and Dan,
>
> I have pretty well stayed out of the Hawaii debate this time around.
> We've
> talked about it in the past and I've been free with my opinion. So I
> guess
> I'll throw caution to the wind and share my thoughts. *smile*
>
> I agree with the two of you. It isn't fair that people with guide dogs
> have
>
> to go through so many extra steps to travel to Hawaii. furthermore as an
> owner trainer, I am unsure that it is even possible for me to travel to
> Hawaii. I am very much in favor of improving ease of travel to Hawaii.
>
> but I'm also torn because Hawaii is rabies free. I can understand how
> devastating it would be to introduce rabies to the islands. However I
> would
>
> think that proof of the vaccine or proof of immunity through a titer test
> would be sufficient. not sure how to accomplish that without some sort of
> extra paperwork requirement.
>
> I would also like to acknowledge the great work Of Jenine Stanly and GDUI
> for working diligently to improve the situation. I don't think it's fair
> to
>
> expect massive social change overnight, but Jenine made an incredible leap
> forward from where things were previously in Hawaii. I totally completely
> agree with her when she talked about getting as much as they could in the
> settlement and working on the rest later. "It is better to do something
> imperfectly than nothing perfectly." that's a quote I read yesterday,
> sorry
> I can't remember whose quote it is.
>
> Julie
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
>
>> Thanks Dan. You seem to be one of the few on this group who see things
>> the
>> same way I do.
>> Jordan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Dan Weiner
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:15 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>
>> What is of concern to me, Dan, anyway, is that we have to show any
>> paperwork, have international health certificates, blood tests, and so
>> on,
>> for a state of the USA in order to be accompanied by our guide dogs.
>> This is something I've only had to do when I travel to other countries.
>> If
>
>> I
>> had to do this every time I traveled to another state here, I'd be forced
>> not to bring my dog with me often and I'm a safer traveler with a dog.
>>
>> Yes, I know it may never be resolved, but that's my opinion and what I at
>> least find objectionable.
>>
>> Dan W.
>>
>>
>>
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