[nagdu] Jordan: A Final Warning!

Fri Dec 10 18:57:08 UTC 2010

Not saying anything more about this until I hear from the person who I
contacted off list.
Jordan

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion Gwizdala
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:44 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: David Andrews
Subject: [nagdu] Jordan: A Final Warning!

Jordan,
    I am unwilling to allow you to jeopardize the integrity of this list. 
This is a private list to which we are extending to you the privilege of 
subscription. It is not a right! As per my off-list message to you, if you 
continue to be disrespectful, disorderly, and oppositional,  you will be put

on moderated status! This is your final opportunity to conduct yourself with

decorum!

Marion Gwizdala, President

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] First Amendment (was "To Jordan", etc.)

> It applies to all speech including freedom of speech, and expression
> Technically, NAGDU is an organization so it does.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Buddy Brannan
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:06 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] First Amendment (was "To Jordan", etc.)
>
> Atually, the First Amendment doesn't even apply here. The administrators 
> of
> the list can allow or disallow any speech they like; see the beginning of
> the amendment, "Congress shall not...", doesn't say a thing about private
> parties. In other words, you're allowed to say anything you like, but 
> we're
> not obligated to give you a platform.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Dec 10, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote:
>
>> Jordan,
>>
>> The First Amendment gives you the right of free speech, as well to 
>> express
>> your opinion. But the First Amendment DOES not give you the right to tell
>> others their opinions are wrong. If you would like to read below, as I
> have
>> included our first Amendment:
>>
>> "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
>> prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of 
>> speech,
>> or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
>> petition the Government for a redress of grievances"
>>
>> Now with that said, you have been asked numerous times to be nice, and to
>> respect others. If a moderator tells you to do such, then it is in your
> best
>> advice to do such. I am frankly getting tired of your disrespectful
>> attitude.
>>
>> Marsha Drenth
>> List Moderator
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Jordan Gallacher
>> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:15 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus
>> driverthatisnotanaccessiblebus just regular bus
>>
>> 1st amendment righ to tell people that I think they have a wrong opinion.
>> Jordan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 9:56 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus
> driverthatisnotanaccessible
>> bus just regular bus
>>
>> Jordan,
>>
>> Perhaps instead of:
>> *Wrong about that.  *
>>
>> try
>> I disagree with that
>> or
>> I think that businesses should...
>>
>> It's fine to disagree.  I'm just asking that we respect others opinions.
>> that is easily accomplished with the simple practice of beginning
> sentences
>> with the word "I".  also please refrain from telling others that their
>> opinions are wrong.
>>
>> thanks!
>> Julie
>> NAGDU list moderator
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 9:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver
>> thatisnotanaccessible bus just regular bus
>>
>>
>>> Wrong about that.  If a business doesn't take appropriate measures and
> the
>>> pet remains in the business, then the business is accountable, of course
>>> this only works if things change to where you have to be able to 
>>> identify
>>> that the dog is indeed a service animal.  Problem is that the majority 
>>> of
>>> businesses don't ask.
>>> Jordan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
>>> Of The Pawpower Pack
>>> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 8:50 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver that
>>> isnotanaccessible bus just regular bus
>>>
>>> Jordan, If my dog becomes distracted and I get hurt, it's not anyone's
>>> falt
>>> but mine for not training the dog to ignore distractions. If a program
> did
>>> the training and I didn't keep that training up it would still be my
> falt.
>>> If it can be proved that the program wasn't thorough enough in their
>>> training, then perhaps it could be their falt.  But if someone brings a
>>> pet
>>> dog into public it is reasonable for my dog to keep working.  She may
>>> require some redirection from me but that should be all.
>>>
>>> Rox
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 10 Dec 2010, at 08:35 AM, "Jordan Gallacher"
> <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, no, no.  If it is a pet, and it is being passed off as a service
>>> animal,
>>>> then there needs to be evidence of such use.  If it is a pet, and the
>>>> business doesn't make it leave, and a person who has a legit service
>>> animal
>>>> gets injured in the business because his dog gets distracted, guess who
>>>> is
>>>> liable.
>>>> Jordan
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 6:31 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver that isnot
>>>> anaccessible bus just regular bus
>>>>
>>>> Jenine,
>>>>   As it was stated by a DOJ Senior Trial Attorney during one of my many
>>>> discussions concerning this that helped me better understand this issue
>>>> while I was grappling with it, "If someone gains access with a pet that
>>> they
>>>>
>>>> are claiming to be a service animal and it is well behaved and causes 
>>>> no
>>>> threat to the health or safety of others, what harm has been done? On
> the
>>>> other hand, even a legitimate service animal that is a threat or is
>>>> disruptive can be removed!"
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:57 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver that is not
>>>> anaccessible bus just regular bus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Cheryl,
>>>>>
>>>>> All the bus driver can ask are the two questions specified by the DOJ.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that a service animal to assist with your disability?
>>>>> What tasks does that animal perform?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If the dog is disruptive and has a history of being so on buses, then
> it
>>>>> can
>>>>> be banned from the buses all together. The person cannot be banned but
>>> the
>>>>> dog can, so if she leaves the dog at home, she can still ride.
>>>>>
>>>>> If a dog gets on the bus with someone and that person says it's a
>>>>> service
>>>>> animal and the dog doesn't bother anyone, then there's nothing to be
>>> done.
>>>>> Jenine Stanley
>>>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of cheryl echevarria
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:38 PM
>>>>> To: nagdu
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver that is not an
>>>>> accessible bus just regular bus
>>>>>
>>>>> As many of you know I live out in Long Island, NY not to far from GDF.
>>>>>
>>>>> And there has been a person, who swears that there dog is a guide dog,
>>>>> meaning a pit bull.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know if Jeanine knows about this issue.  But here on Long
>>>>> Island,
>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> believe every year the Suffolk County Bus Company for there drivers
> that
>>>>> is
>>>>> called sensitivity training.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wish they would allow me to come as well as being part of NAGDU, and
>>>>> have
>>>>> a representative from GDF as well as the other service animal schools
> in
>>>>> the
>>>>> area.
>>>>>
>>>>> One day, I was a passenger on the bus when this person tried to pass
> off
>>>>> there dog as a service animal, again this dog is a pit bull.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was sitting there and the driver said that we are stopping and the
>>>>> person
>>>>> has a dog and has tried to get on the bus before the driver side to 
>>>>> me,
>>>>> they
>>>>> don't carry a card with them, but they carry the print out of the ADA
>>>>> law
>>>>> with them.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will tell you what happened, and then I will put what the driver's
>>>>> question is.
>>>>>
>>>>> First when the driver stopped and the woman tried to get on the bus,
> now
>>>>> mind you I sit in the front because I like to talk to my driver as
> well.
>>>>> Nice guy, many years he has been the driver, anyway she tries to get 
>>>>> on
>>>>> but
>>>>> her dog starts to growl and bark at my dog.  Maxx moved closer to me
> not
>>>>> wanting anything to do with this dog.
>>>>>
>>>>> I asked her what type of dog is that, she said a pit bull, no I said
>>>>> meaning
>>>>> what kind of service animal is it.  She said he was just a service
>>>>> animal
>>>>> and that she has the paperwork to prove it. I said what job does the
> dog
>>>>> do
>>>>> for you, I didn't say what disability she has.  She said he is her
>>> comfort
>>>>> animal.  I said 1, Comfort animals are not considered Service Animals
>>>>> and
>>>>> fall under the ADA. 2. In the State of NY, especially Suffolk County
> NY,
>>>>> and
>>>>> some other parts of NY to even have a pit bull, and that I am blind 
>>>>> and
>
>>>>> a
>>>>> graduate of GDF I said which school, and I pulled out my ID from GDF, 
>>>>> I
>>> do
>>>>> not need to carry paperwork around with me and never should she. From
> my
>>>>> searching I have found that especially in the state of NY there is no
>>>>> service animal training schools that train pit bulls. I asked her 
>>>>> where
>>>>> she
>>>>> got her dog, she said NY.
>>>>>
>>>>> The driver asked her to please leave if she could not control her dog.
>>>>>
>>>>> A few months later she tried to get on another bus and the driver let
>>>>> her
>>>>> on.
>>>>>
>>>>> The driver and I spoke the other day since I had to go somewhere, that
>>> she
>>>>> tried to get on again on his bus, and he said he wouldn't allow the 
>>>>> dog
>>> on
>>>>> the bus.
>>>>>
>>>>> The driver wants to know how far are they allowed to go to stop this.
>>>>>
>>>>> To many people are trying this in Suffolk County.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes we get IDs and I don't know what the big deal is about giving ID, 
>>>>> I
>>>>> think that helps a lot, especially in the case that it is not always
>>>>> obvious
>>>>> to lets say in this situation to tell if someone is disabled and needs
> a
>>>>> dog, I mean if a person is blind it is not always noticeable, not
>>> everyone
>>>>> uses dark glasses, or has a dog with a harness with the schools name 
>>>>> on
>>>>> it,
>>>>> or a person in a wheelchair, and with more children and adult with
>>>>> seizures
>>>>> or autism or other disabilities how is one to know.  You can't ask 
>>>>> what
>>>>> the
>>>>> disability you have, you can't force a person to show ID.  What is the
>>>>> answer?
>>>>>
>>>>> The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheryl Echevarria
>>>>> http://Echevarriatravel.com<http://echevarriatravel.com/>
>>>>> 1-866-580-5574
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>>>>> CST-1018299-10
>>>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and 
>>>>> Travel
>>>>> Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>> join my yahoogroup
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com<mailto:echevarriatravel-subscribe
>>>>> @yahoogroups.com>
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