[nagdu] contact with puppy raisers/walkers

Thu Dec 16 19:21:24 UTC 2010

Rebecca, my sentiments exactly, all I want is, like any adult, freedom to 
make that choice and not imposition on either side of the fence.

In the days even long before the great flood, I attended university and, 
partly on my own, partly with support from other students, organized readers 
to do hundreds of hoursvolunteer reading for my required reading on 
reel-to-reel tape.  If we meshed together, we became friends but I made it 
abundantly clear that I could not pay them anything and the time they gave 
so freely, though appreciated, was separate and apart from anything else 
which might or might not happen.  Indeed, I even provided references for 
jobs some of them applied for. I swore at most of them--I actually said, and 
felt, thank you.  There is nothing at all wrong with healthy gratitude.

Doug: it's better to give than to receive, so would someone please give me 
an IPhone 4 for Xmas--please?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) (Internet)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] contact with puppy raisers/walkers

> I'm not sure I really understand Seeing Eye's position.
> Why can't or won't they trust everybody to be adults. If a raiser or 
> handler has an issue with a type of contact, why can't it be sorted out 
> via the legal system or in all the myraid ways unwanted contact is made to 
> stop.
> It seems like that is only logical given that Seeing Eye places such trust 
> in the grads' abilities to manage their dogs.
> I'm not sure I'm buying the "But what if" senario. I also don't understand 
> why Seeing Eye can't place the same trust in appropriate contact and use 
> the same resolution plan for when contact is inappropriate it uses for dog 
> issues.
> What am I missing?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf 
> Of Buddy Brannan
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 1:36 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] contact with puppy raisers/walkers
>
> Oh goody! Another hot button issue! Yay!!!!
>
> I completely understand the reasons for the TSE puppy raiser contact 
> policy. I understand the historic significance, and also the other reason, 
> i.e. you're raising a dog for the school, not for a specific person, doing 
> something for the greater good as it were, a wider cause than one specific 
> individual. And that's all fantastic, and I agree with the motives and the 
> reasoning. Do I wish that the policy would be modified? Certainly; I'd 
> love to have contact with Leon's raisers. Will I lose sleep over it that I 
> don't? Not especially. While I understand not actively facilitating 
> contact, the practice of editing letters between the parties is something 
> I have issues with, even though I understand why. I think, basically, it's 
> one thing to not encourage contact, but quite another to block it between 
> consenting parties. Assuming of course both parties are consenting. It's 
> certainly not as easy an issue as we might like to believe.
>
> I had contact with my first dog's raiser, from a school that isn't the 
> Seeing Eye. The Ripkens are wonderful people, and we still stay in touch 
> some even today, over 13 years later. Many relationships are like this. 
> Not all, though; there are cases such as Jenine has mentioned. There are 
> others where raisers in one way or another interfere with the team. 
> Conversely, I'm aware of cases where handlers inappropriately relate to 
> their dog's raisers, some in the ways Jenine has outlined, other times 
> inappropriately imposing upon the raiser in some way. So it's definitely 
> not always great, either. Does that mean that the schools need to 
> chaperone these relationships because some might e inappropriate? Again, 
> this isn't nearly so easy and clear cut as some would have it.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2010, at 4:59 PM, Jenine Stanley wrote:
>
>> Although GDF does allow contact with puppy raisers/walker, I do feel the
>> need to defend TSE's no-contact policy. It has nothing, absolutely 
>> nothing,
>> to do with you being an adult. It's about the principle of anonymous 
>> giving,
>> selfless giving.
>>
>> I've been in a workshop where a puppy raiser actually said "I raised 
>> these
>> dogs. I'm entitled to pet them whenever I want. You people are too mean 
>> to
>> them, never write back and don't deserve them."
>>
>> The man who said this totally embarrassed his family and does not 
>> represent
>> all puppy raisers/walkers, but his opinion, or variations thereof, are 
>> out
>> there and make up the wide reasons people do raise puppies.
>>
>> Also, not everything your dog does now is a result of things it did as a
>> puppy or was illegally allowed to do. I've heard from puppy walkers who 
>> were
>> crushed when hearing about their dogs' behavior as guides and were 
>> berated
>> by the handlers for allowing X, Y or Z when they did no such thing.
>>
>> I think those who have issue with TSE's puppy contact policy should read 
>> in
>> the literature exactly why it was established. It screams respect for the
>> adult nature of blind people.
>>
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>
>>
>>
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>
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