[nagdu] contact with puppy raisers/walkers

d m gina dmgina at samobile.net
Thu Dec 16 23:11:56 UTC 2010 

Well good,
I didn't get the joke either.
It is just fine to be a dumb blond, I wear my hair quite well thank you 
very much.
Giggle.

Original message:
> Yes ineedy. Funny thing about that, Doug. In my class with Chet (guide 
> previous to this one), I said to my class, "Hi, my name is Buddy. But 
> really, it's Kiss." And no one got it. Worse yet, a girl asked, "Is 
> your name really Kiss, or are you joking?" Sigh.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY



> On Dec 16, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Doug Parisian wrote:

>> Buddy, I believe we're both playing in the same band.  And golly gee, 
>> can anyone blame a man who was named after the first Seeing Eye dog 
>> (and that was a shepherd too) for being cautious?

>> Doug: Shepherd's pie anyone?

>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 1:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] contact with puppy raisers/walkers


>>> You're not missing anything I'm not missing, because I basically agree 
>>> with you. I'm just saying that this is historically where the no 
>>> contact thing comes from. And, like I said, there's a lot of difference 
>>> between not encouraging contact and actively blocking it. That the 
>>> Seeing Eye is the oldest guide dog school in the world is one of those 
>>> good news/bad news things. Good because they have that 80-odd years of 
>>> experience. Bad because sometimes they are slow to change. Sometimes 
>>> even slow to change is good, because change isn't always great, and 
>>> doing the latest thing because it's the latest thing isn't always a 
>>> good idea, but at other times, well, not so much.
>>> --
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY



>>> On Dec 16, 2010, at 1:54 PM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) (Internet) wrote:

>>>> I'm not sure I really understand Seeing Eye's position.
>>>> Why can't or won't they trust everybody to be adults. If a raiser or 
>>>> handler has an issue with a type of contact, why can't it be sorted out 
>>>> via the legal system or in all the myraid ways unwanted contact is made 
>>>> to stop.
>>>> It seems like that is only logical given that Seeing Eye places such 
>>>> trust in the grads' abilities to manage their dogs.
>>>> I'm not sure I'm buying the "But what if" senario. I also don't 
>>>> understand why Seeing Eye can't place the same trust in appropriate 
>>>> contact and use the same resolution plan for when contact is 
>>>> inappropriate it uses for dog issues.
>>>> What am I missing?

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>> Behalf Of Buddy Brannan
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 1:36 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] contact with puppy raisers/walkers

>>>> Oh goody! Another hot button issue! Yay!!!!

>>>> I completely understand the reasons for the TSE puppy raiser contact 
>>>> policy. I understand the historic significance, and also the other 
>>>> reason, i.e. you're raising a dog for the school, not for a specific 
>>>> person, doing something for the greater good as it were, a wider cause 
>>>> than one specific individual. And that's all fantastic, and I agree 
>>>> with the motives and the reasoning. Do I wish that the policy would be 
>>>> modified? Certainly; I'd love to have contact with Leon's raisers. Will 
>>>> I lose sleep over it that I don't? Not especially. While I understand 
>>>> not actively facilitating contact, the practice of editing letters 
>>>> between the parties is something I have issues with, even though I 
>>>> understand why. I think, basically, it's one thing to not encourage 
>>>> contact, but quite another to block it between consenting parties. 
>>>> Assuming of course both parties are consenting. It's certainly not as 
>>>> easy an issue as we might like to believe.

>>>> I had contact with my first dog's raiser, from a school that isn't the 
>>>> Seeing Eye. The Ripkens are wonderful people, and we still stay in 
>>>> touch some even today, over 13 years later. Many relationships are like 
>>>> this. Not all, though; there are cases such as Jenine has mentioned. 
>>>> There are others where raisers in one way or another interfere with the 
>>>> team. Conversely, I'm aware of cases where handlers inappropriately 
>>>> relate to their dog's raisers, some in the ways Jenine has outlined, 
>>>> other times inappropriately imposing upon the raiser in some way. So 
>>>> it's definitely not always great, either. Does that mean that the 
>>>> schools need to chaperone these relationships because some might e 
>>>> inappropriate? Again, this isn't nearly so easy and clear cut as some 
>>>> would have it.
>>>> --
>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY



>>>> On Dec 14, 2010, at 4:59 PM, Jenine Stanley wrote:

>>>>> Although GDF does allow contact with puppy raisers/walker, I do feel the
>>>>> need to defend TSE's no-contact policy. It has nothing, absolutely nothing,
>>>>> to do with you being an adult. It's about the principle of anonymous giving,
>>>>> selfless giving.

>>>>> I've been in a workshop where a puppy raiser actually said "I raised these
>>>>> dogs. I'm entitled to pet them whenever I want. You people are too mean to
>>>>> them, never write back and don't deserve them."

>>>>> The man who said this totally embarrassed his family and does not represent
>>>>> all puppy raisers/walkers, but his opinion, or variations thereof, are out
>>>>> there and make up the wide reasons people do raise puppies.

>>>>> Also, not everything your dog does now is a result of things it did as a
>>>>> puppy or was illegally allowed to do. I've heard from puppy walkers who were
>>>>> crushed when hearing about their dogs' behavior as guides and were berated
>>>>> by the handlers for allowing X, Y or Z when they did no such thing.

>>>>> I think those who have issue with TSE's puppy contact policy should read in
>>>>> the literature exactly why it was established. It screams respect for the
>>>>> adult nature of blind people.

>>>>> Jenine Stanley
>>>>> jeninems at wowway.com



>>>>> _______________________________________________
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