[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Tue Feb 2 15:27:14 UTC 2010

Julie and list, 
Why would someone choose to use a private trainer or get their dog from
say Noah's Assistance given the high finantial cost? I can understand
owner-training, and I can understand getting a dog froma program, but am
unable to figure out the middle option. 
Any ideas?

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Julie J
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:54 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Uh, Albert...the vast majority of guide dog users get their guides from 
programs.  the vast majority of programs are free.  The Seeing Eye is
the 
only large program that charges more than a token amount, $150.  As I 
understand it they will work out payment plans if that is needed.

What I said is accurate, not all guide dogs are free.  But I don't want
you 
to have the impression that most blind people are unable to afford one 
because that just isn't so.  the largest cost is the food and veterinary

care.  There are programs that will help with those costs as well.

I don't see it as a harsh reality or a burden that I have chosen to foot
the 
bill for my guide dog.  If I couldn't afford it, I have other options. 
Choice is a beautiful thing.

Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

> Margo I never knew this, I just about fell out of my chair when I
heard
> Julie make that statement.  The GDF does not, and I will continue to
help
> raise funds for them as long as I can given this new found
information. In
> one instance our fiscal independence is important, but philanthropic
work 
> is
> to be commended, not charity.  It now makes sense, why there may be
only
> 10,000  guide users nationally, as I have been advised, if there are
costs
> involved which would stress our monthly budgets.  Remarkable.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
> Of Margo and Arrow
> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:44 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
> those of us who go to The Seeing eye do pay a fee for our dogs--it's a

> small
>
> fee.  I believe we're the only school which requires payment of any
kind 
> but
>
> could be wrong.
>
> margo and Arrow
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
>>I am not sure what costs would ne incurred, as I understand and as has

>>been
>> my experience, there is no cost for securing a guide dog.  I am new
to
>> blindness and assume that most if not all organizations provide
guides
>> free
>> of charge. I agree with you that the certification process if it is
to 
>> be,
>> must be determined independently and not by any individual school,
but by
>> a
>> seasoned group of professionals, end users and others with the skill
set
>> sufficient to create a certification  program which would better
ensure
>> well
>> trained guides for those who need them. I see how certification has
>> impacted
>> so many other areas professionally, and I am inclined to feel that
>> certification would not set anyone back. It would all be in how we as
a
>> consumer roup direct that so as to ensure it is empowering and
promising
>> for
>> all.  I also do not see how this would impact our taxes since I do
not
>> believe the certification of mobility instructors and teachers and
others
>> is
>> a cost of those looking for the certification and education
sufficient
>> enough to be considered a professional in their respective arenas. I
see
>> how
>> the state protections in Florida are a good basis to grow from, but
as
>> recently shared end users are still being denied access to stores and
>> transportation. We may need to work on educating all people about the
ADA
>> rather then worrying about trainers being denied access. Thanks.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:10 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> Albert,
>>
>> I will freely admit that the word "certification" scares the crap out
of
>> me.
>>
>> All the issues that Buddy, Steve, Rox'e, Linda and Marion have
brought up
>> are my issues as well.
>>
>> I am like buddy, in that I am not actually opposed to certification,
but
>> rather the implementation of that certification.   As of yet I have
not
>> seen
>>
>> any sort of proposed scheme for certification that is fair, unbiased
and
>> would not place a burden on the end user or taxpayers.  If someone
can
>> convince me that their program for implementing certification will
not
>> cost
>> more money and will not be biased I'll sign up.  Until then I'm a "no
>> certification" gal.
>>
>> I suppose my very serious lack of enthusiasm of certification comes
from
>> the
>>
>> knowledge of previous government and blindness agency efforts to
"help"
>> the
>> blind or "enhance" our opportunities or some such other stupidity.  I
am
>> not
>>
>> old enough to have been around during the times of protests, but I am
old
>> enough to know lots of other blind people who were.   Agencies
offering
>> accreditation or approval of various aspects of blindness services do
not
>> have a good track record.  Really I like the current laws and would 
>> rather
>> live with the minor inconveniencies of them than come up with new
ones
>> that
>> would quite possibly take us back 50 years in personal freedoms for
blind
>> people.
>>
>> JMO, a'course
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>> Lol, yeah sign me up for a self trained dog who can pour a scotch.
Well
>>> why
>>> is there an assumption that certification will be granted by
individual
>>> schools, rather then an independent  body comprised of end users an
>>> professionals from the field?  Anything different would most
certainly
>>> appear self serving  for those schools to determined who is or is
not a
>>> certified trainer.  I am not supporting that dogs be certified, but
that
>>> the
>>> trainer, much like others in the field of mobility are certified and
>>> trained
>>> either according to national, or as seems to be the preference, a
state
>>> standard? Again, I would draw attention to the need for a guide to
be
>>> introduced and worked in those everyday environments which they will
>>> inevitably come up against once they are passed onto a handler.  Is
that
>>> not
>>> proper?  I mean there is significant training that goes into a guide
>>> prior
>>> to even venturing out into the public? Am I correct in that
position? I
>>> am
>>> not sure why it would seem odd to want our guides to be sufficiently
>>> trained
>>> in areas where public accommodation  as defined under the ADA are
>>> afforded?
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of The Pawpower Pack
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:04 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>> Albert,
>>>
>>> Just to clarify; my dog is not self-trained.  She did not train
>>> herself.  If you ever find a dog who can train itself, let me know.
>>> It'd save me quite a bit of work.  Grin!
>>>
>>> Many owner trainers actually don't really begin public access
training
>>> for quite some time.  I have known an owner trainer to train the
guide
>>> work on streets and in places where the general public is allowed to
>>> bring their pets.  In some cities such as Portland Oregon, dogs are
>>> allowed on pubtrans.
>>>
>>> I don't appose giving training staff the right to bring pups in
>>> training into places of public accommodation.
>>>
>>> There are two problems I have with this law, the first is the word
>>> "certified."  I think it opens up a huge can of worms, and is a
>>> slippery slope from certifying trainers to certifying teams.  I
think
>>> it self-serving to allow the programs to certify their own trainers
>>> and also as an owner trainer I would rather that the programs not be
>>> involved in certifying my dog.
>>> My second issue with this legislation is as Marion said.  I do not
>>> think the ADA which is a law written to protect the civil rights of
>>> persons with disabilities is the place to address the rights of
>>> largely non-disabled trainers.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won,
you
>>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>
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