[nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names

Linda Gwizdak linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Wed Feb 10 18:24:25 UTC 2010 

Hi Michelle,
You're from Australia? My friend has a friend in Australia and she's visited 
there with her guide dog.

Labs are able to work with the most types of people and the German shepherds 
need a more specific type of person to work well with.

Most Labs are happy-go-lucky souls who don't care who works them. They are 
more laid back with a "OK, I'll do that, no problem".  Shepherds are smart 
and always thinking.  They always look to see how far they can push the 
envelop with, "Oh, she wants me to sit - let's see - how can I get around 
doing that!  Is she gonna make me do it!"  A shepherd needs a handler who is 
on their toes ALL THE TIME and will take advantage of you if you slack off 
and daydream!

This is my experience. I choose not to use a shepherd because they tend to 
pull too hard for my shoulder so I stick to the Labs or Lab crosses.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michelle" <m-johnson at bigpond.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names


> Ok. Well, I'm from Australia so am hoping that the bloodlines of the 
> German Shepherds are different over here. I'll inquire into it when I ring 
> Seeing Eye Dogs Australia at some point. Apparently they breed German 
> Shepherds, but not as many as the labs. Whether it's because of the 
> popularity of the breed or other factors I'm yet to find out.
>
> Michelle
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 4:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>
>
>> Michelle,
>>
>>>From what I know from inquiring into it when I was applying to guide dog
>> programs when shepherds were even harder to get than poodles already, it
>> seems to have had a lot to do with health and temperament.  More with
>> health.  The problems lowered their success rate and raised the cost of 
>> each
>> success.  Because of the problems with the American German Shepherd at 
>> the
>> time, and still, it is extremely expensive to bring a dog from a sounder
>> European line to improve the genetics, etc., etc.
>>
>> Meanwhile, they have a really great line of labs and lab golden crosses, 
>> so
>> it makes sense that they decided to start focusing on those dogs while 
>> they
>> let the other breeds go.
>>
>> I think the reservation of those last shepherds for previous shepherd 
>> users
>> was simply a matter of scarcity.
>>
>> No clue if other factors may have been involved, but I have heard of 
>> other
>> schools facing the same issues with their shepherd lines because of the
>> faults that have been bred into the breed over here.  Sad.
>>
>> I keep meeting more and more of the older style shepherds with good 
>> strong
>> toplines and hips, and I always ask where they're from and learn that if
>> they're not from Europe, their sires and dams are.  There seem to be a
>> number of breeders here and in Washington have been bringing in new stock 
>> to
>> start lines of their own, at least for their companion quality dogs. 
>> Yay!
>>
>> Wonder if that will start to affect the show breeding?  Hope so!
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Michelle
>> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:17 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>
>> I'd like to know why shepherds aren't used in the GDB program, and why 
>> don't
>>
>> first-timers get sheperds? I don't know a whole lot about sheperds...
>>
>> Michelle
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 6:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>
>>
>>> Hi Nichole,
>>> When I was at Seeing Eye in 1999 to get Jacob, there were a litter of
>>> Chocolate Labs in the class.  They were all medium to small in size.
>>> Seeing
>>> Eye tries to breed on the smaller size. I've seen some very huge Labs 
>>> from
>>> DGB!   The large ones tend to be mellow while many of the small Labs are
>>> high energy.
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>>
>>>
>>>> However, most of the chocolates that I have met in my life are quite
>>>> large. I do not know if this is just a coincidence or if all chocolates
>>>> are this way.  They were almost too large to be guides.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Jonathan Lyens" <jonathan at lyens.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:03 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Julie,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for this. You have pointed out an important fact. Chocolate 
>>>>> color
>>>>> in labs is a recessive trait. GDB does not specifically breed for this
>>>>> color, as it has nothing to do with the dogs suitability for guide 
>>>>> work.
>>>>> I'd have to believe if it made a difference, they'd modify their
>>>>> breeding program.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best-
>>>>>
>>>>> Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>> Jonathan T. Lyens MPA
>>>>> Email: jonathan at lyens.com
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Julie J
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:41 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>>>>
>>>>> Except for the color chocolate labs are the same as the other colors.
>>>>> Here's an article I found that explains it pretty well.
>>>>> http://www.labbies.com/genetics.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> The short version is that black is the dominant gene and most labs 
>>>>> will
>>>>> end
>>>>> up this color.  The next most common color is yellow and chocolate 
>>>>> comes
>>>>> in
>>>>> third.   Depending on your particular breeding program and the 
>>>>> recessive
>>>>>
>>>>> genes in those dogs, chocolate labs may never appear.  It is totally a
>>>>> color
>>>>> thing and has nothing to do with health or temperament.
>>>>>
>>>>> HTH
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 7:21 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I was told by a GDB graduate that GDB didn't use chocolate Labs 
>>>>>>because
>>>>>
>>>>>>they weren't as good as the black or yellow ones. But, maybe they just
>>>>>>don't have them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it is true about the bloodlines, they would have to have only
>>>>> breeding
>>>>>> stock that has either a family tree of only black or yellow genes.
>>>>> Lots of
>>>>>> times a black Lab with yellow genes can welp chocolates - chocolates
>>>>> must
>>>>>> have both black and yellow genes to make the brown color.  They have
>>>>> to be
>>>>>> occasionally bred to black Labs to keep the chocolate color dark and
>>>>> rich.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:03 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't quote me on this one, but I've heard that it is not so much
>>>>> "won't
>>>>>>> use" chocolates as that they just are not in the blood line.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:31 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nicole,
>>>>>>>>>From what I've heard, GDB no longer uses German shepherds and they
>>>>> also
>>>>>>>> don't use chocolate Labs. I can understand the shepherds but don't
>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> why they won't use chocolate Labs.  Seeing Eye uses them without 
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> more problems than with any other colored Labs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:48 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes... it's ashame.  I was stuck on shepherds for a while, but I
>>>>>>>>> realized that I probably was not going to get one from GDB.  They
>>>>>>>>> usually do not give first timers shepherds.  Also, the number was
>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>> low that I would rather leave what there was for the people who
>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> take nothing else. However, I did get to visit with one of the
>>>>>>>>> shepherds who was going out in the next class.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:54 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Marion,
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GDF will encounter the same problems with German
>>>>> shepherds
>>>>>>>>>> as GDB?  It's a shame how this beautiful breed has been ruined by
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> show-dog crowd!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I know aboout the "pressure" of being the first one in something.
>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>> my work with the Humane Society, I am the first disabled person
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> their service dog to join the Pet-Assisted Therapy Program.
>>>>> they've
>>>>>>>>>> had lots of puppy-raisers and their service dog pups, but not
>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>> like me. they are very happy with my and Landon's performance of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> job that another program wants me to join them!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You'll do fine - and the new shepherd guide!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:08 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Linda,
>>>>>>>>>>>    GDF hasn't trained Shepherds in more than 20 years. Because I
>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> so much experience with the breed, they are re-introducing them
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> me as their first handler. Oh, the pressure! (smile)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:54 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Marion,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't think Guide Dog Foundation used German shepherds
>>>>> anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The name "Sarge" seems to fit a shepherd more than it would a
>>>>> Lab.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend at the Naval Medical Center who has a Lab named
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Scout".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My dog, Landon is named for Michael Landon actor in the old TV
>>>>>>>>>>>> series, "Bonanza" - Little Joe who was always fighting!  The
>>>>> actor
>>>>>>>>>>>> Landon was also in "Little House on the Prairie" and I think
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Stairway to Heaven". He was a more mature and peaceful
>>>>> charactor on
>>>>>>>>>>>> those two shows! I enjoyed the first two shows!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My old dogs were Heidi, Charm (and she was!), Brownie (my Mom
>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>>> for her brown eyes - she was black!), Olivia, Hanna, Janelle,
>>>>> Jacob,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and now Landon. I liked all the names and didn't feel the need
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> change them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:37 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Interesting Names Re: guide dog book about
>>>>>>>>>>>> young person
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rox,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>    When I first heard my future guide dog's name, my first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression was, "Oh, no! That will need to change!" However,
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more I have learned about him, the more his name seems to fit
>>>>> him!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He is a big German Shepherd,weighing in at 91 lbs. about three
>>>>>>>>>>>>> weeks ago and not yet 2 years old. He has an all black face 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold eyes! His name is Sarge!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Now, I'm a fairly liberal person and would consider myself 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> peace activist, so the name seemed a little out-of-place for
>>>>> me. At
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same time, my first trainer was also the Founder and
>>>>> Executive
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Director of the school from which I recieved my first three
>>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs. He is now the Director of Training (I think they call it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Training Officer) for the Guide Dog Foundation for the Blind.
>>>>> His
>>>>>>>>>>>>> name? Well, Mike Sargeant, often called "Sarge"! When I spoke
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> him the last time, he referred to my dog as "my namesake"! 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a great guy and I count him as a close colleague, so I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> change Sarge's name now! BTW, Mike told me he thought of
>>>>> changing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarge's name himself just to rattle my cage! To what? Well, he
>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>>>> he thought of "ACB"! Nice guy, huh? And I call him a friend?
>>>>> (big
>>>>>>>>>>>>> grin)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:45 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Interesting Names Re: guide dog book 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> young person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I adopted Laveau from the humane society, her name was
>>>>> Marge.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That had to go because... it just did.  It didn't take her
>>>>> long to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch and now when I say or sign her name she wags like
>>>>> crazy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She was only a year old and I don't know how long she had 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck with the horrid moniker of Marge.  No offense to anyone
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that name but it just wasn't for her.  Also I'm a huge Harry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Potter fan and everyone would have called her aunt Marge.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "It's wildly irritating to have invented something as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revolutionary as sarcasm, only to have it abused by 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amateurs."
>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christopher Moore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>>> rizon.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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