[nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names

Wed Feb 10 18:55:56 UTC 2010

Hi, Tami,
The Seeing Eye frequently gets new German shepherd breeding stock from 
Germany.  Since I haven't had a German shepherd in over 10 years, I don't 
know what they are like. I get the Labs and Lab crosses and I work the best 
with those.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names

> Michelle,
>
>>From what I know from inquiring into it when I was applying to guide dog
> programs when shepherds were even harder to get than poodles already, it
> seems to have had a lot to do with health and temperament.  More with
> health.  The problems lowered their success rate and raised the cost of 
> each
> success.  Because of the problems with the American German Shepherd at the
> time, and still, it is extremely expensive to bring a dog from a sounder
> European line to improve the genetics, etc., etc.
>
> Meanwhile, they have a really great line of labs and lab golden crosses, 
> so
> it makes sense that they decided to start focusing on those dogs while 
> they
> let the other breeds go.
>
> I think the reservation of those last shepherds for previous shepherd 
> users
> was simply a matter of scarcity.
>
> No clue if other factors may have been involved, but I have heard of other
> schools facing the same issues with their shepherd lines because of the
> faults that have been bred into the breed over here.  Sad.
>
> I keep meeting more and more of the older style shepherds with good strong
> toplines and hips, and I always ask where they're from and learn that if
> they're not from Europe, their sires and dams are.  There seem to be a
> number of breeders here and in Washington have been bringing in new stock 
> to
> start lines of their own, at least for their companion quality dogs.  Yay!
>
> Wonder if that will start to affect the show breeding?  Hope so!
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Michelle
> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:17 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>
> I'd like to know why shepherds aren't used in the GDB program, and why 
> don't
>
> first-timers get sheperds? I don't know a whole lot about sheperds...
>
> Michelle
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 6:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>
>
>> Hi Nichole,
>> When I was at Seeing Eye in 1999 to get Jacob, there were a litter of
>> Chocolate Labs in the class.  They were all medium to small in size.
>> Seeing
>> Eye tries to breed on the smaller size. I've seen some very huge Labs 
>> from
>> DGB!   The large ones tend to be mellow while many of the small Labs are
>> high energy.
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>
>>
>>> However, most of the chocolates that I have met in my life are quite
>>> large. I do not know if this is just a coincidence or if all chocolates
>>> are this way.  They were almost too large to be guides.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jonathan Lyens" <jonathan at lyens.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Julie,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for this. You have pointed out an important fact. Chocolate 
>>>> color
>>>> in labs is a recessive trait. GDB does not specifically breed for this
>>>> color, as it has nothing to do with the dogs suitability for guide 
>>>> work.
>>>> I'd have to believe if it made a difference, they'd modify their
>>>> breeding program.
>>>>
>>>> Best-
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan T. Lyens MPA
>>>> Email: jonathan at lyens.com
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Julie J
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:41 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>>>
>>>> Except for the color chocolate labs are the same as the other colors.
>>>> Here's an article I found that explains it pretty well.
>>>> http://www.labbies.com/genetics.htm
>>>>
>>>> The short version is that black is the dominant gene and most labs will
>>>> end
>>>> up this color.  The next most common color is yellow and chocolate 
>>>> comes
>>>> in
>>>> third.   Depending on your particular breeding program and the 
>>>> recessive
>>>>
>>>> genes in those dogs, chocolate labs may never appear.  It is totally a
>>>> color
>>>> thing and has nothing to do with health or temperament.
>>>>
>>>> HTH
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 7:21 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I was told by a GDB graduate that GDB didn't use chocolate Labs because
>>>>
>>>>>they weren't as good as the black or yellow ones. But, maybe they just
>>>>>don't have them.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it is true about the bloodlines, they would have to have only
>>>> breeding
>>>>> stock that has either a family tree of only black or yellow genes.
>>>> Lots of
>>>>> times a black Lab with yellow genes can welp chocolates - chocolates
>>>> must
>>>>> have both black and yellow genes to make the brown color.  They have
>>>> to be
>>>>> occasionally bred to black Labs to keep the chocolate color dark and
>>>> rich.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:03 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't quote me on this one, but I've heard that it is not so much
>>>> "won't
>>>>>> use" chocolates as that they just are not in the blood line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:31 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nicole,
>>>>>>>>From what I've heard, GDB no longer uses German shepherds and they
>>>> also
>>>>>>> don't use chocolate Labs. I can understand the shepherds but don't
>>>> know
>>>>>>> why they won't use chocolate Labs.  Seeing Eye uses them without any
>>>>
>>>>>>> more problems than with any other colored Labs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:48 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes... it's ashame.  I was stuck on shepherds for a while, but I
>>>>>>>> realized that I probably was not going to get one from GDB.  They
>>>>>>>> usually do not give first timers shepherds.  Also, the number was
>>>> so
>>>>>>>> low that I would rather leave what there was for the people who
>>>> would
>>>>>>>> take nothing else. However, I did get to visit with one of the
>>>>>>>> shepherds who was going out in the next class.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:54 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marion,
>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GDF will encounter the same problems with German
>>>> shepherds
>>>>>>>>> as GDB?  It's a shame how this beautiful breed has been ruined by
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> show-dog crowd!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know aboout the "pressure" of being the first one in something.
>>>> In
>>>>>>>>> my work with the Humane Society, I am the first disabled person
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> their service dog to join the Pet-Assisted Therapy Program.
>>>> they've
>>>>>>>>> had lots of puppy-raisers and their service dog pups, but not
>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>> like me. they are very happy with my and Landon's performance of
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> job that another program wants me to join them!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You'll do fine - and the new shepherd guide!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:08 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Linda,
>>>>>>>>>>    GDF hasn't trained Shepherds in more than 20 years. Because I
>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> so much experience with the breed, they are re-introducing them
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> me as their first handler. Oh, the pressure! (smile)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:54 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Marion,
>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't think Guide Dog Foundation used German shepherds
>>>> anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>> The name "Sarge" seems to fit a shepherd more than it would a
>>>> Lab.
>>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend at the Naval Medical Center who has a Lab named
>>>>>>>>>>> "Scout".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My dog, Landon is named for Michael Landon actor in the old TV
>>>>>>>>>>> series, "Bonanza" - Little Joe who was always fighting!  The
>>>> actor
>>>>>>>>>>> Landon was also in "Little House on the Prairie" and I think
>>>>>>>>>>> "Stairway to Heaven". He was a more mature and peaceful
>>>> charactor on
>>>>>>>>>>> those two shows! I enjoyed the first two shows!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My old dogs were Heidi, Charm (and she was!), Brownie (my Mom
>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>> for her brown eyes - she was black!), Olivia, Hanna, Janelle,
>>>> Jacob,
>>>>>>>>>>> and now Landon. I liked all the names and didn't feel the need
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> change them.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:37 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Interesting Names Re: guide dog book about
>>>>>>>>>>> young person
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rox,
>>>>>>>>>>>>    When I first heard my future guide dog's name, my first
>>>>>>>>>>>> impression was, "Oh, no! That will need to change!" However,
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> more I have learned about him, the more his name seems to fit
>>>> him!
>>>>>>>>>>>> He is a big German Shepherd,weighing in at 91 lbs. about three
>>>>>>>>>>>> weeks ago and not yet 2 years old. He has an all black face and
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> gold eyes! His name is Sarge!
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Now, I'm a fairly liberal person and would consider myself a
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> peace activist, so the name seemed a little out-of-place for
>>>> me. At
>>>>>>>>>>>> the same time, my first trainer was also the Founder and
>>>> Executive
>>>>>>>>>>>> Director of the school from which I recieved my first three
>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs. He is now the Director of Training (I think they call it
>>>>>>>>>>>> Training Officer) for the Guide Dog Foundation for the Blind.
>>>> His
>>>>>>>>>>>> name? Well, Mike Sargeant, often called "Sarge"! When I spoke
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> him the last time, he referred to my dog as "my namesake"! Mike
>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> a great guy and I count him as a close colleague, so I couldn't
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> change Sarge's name now! BTW, Mike told me he thought of
>>>> changing
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarge's name himself just to rattle my cage! To what? Well, he
>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>>> he thought of "ACB"! Nice guy, huh? And I call him a friend?
>>>> (big
>>>>>>>>>>>> grin)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:45 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Interesting Names Re: guide dog book about
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> young person
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I adopted Laveau from the humane society, her name was
>>>> Marge.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That had to go because... it just did.  It didn't take her
>>>> long to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch and now when I say or sign her name she wags like
>>>> crazy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> She was only a year old and I don't know how long she had been
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck with the horrid moniker of Marge.  No offense to anyone
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that name but it just wasn't for her.  Also I'm a huge Harry
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Potter fan and everyone would have called her aunt Marge.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "It's wildly irritating to have invented something as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> revolutionary as sarcasm, only to have it abused by amateurs."
>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christopher Moore
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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