[nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names

Tamara Smith-Kinney tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Thu Feb 11 07:03:25 UTC 2010


Linda,

I have a friend who recently graduate with one of the small shepherds.  She
is just great!  She also appears to have very sound confirmation to go with
that beautiful termperament.  She is also very, very tiny.  /smile/  I joke
about how I would love a GSD because one would spare me all of the gushing
over my poodle's extreme cuteness.

My friend assures me that eveyrone adores her small shepherd because she is
just so cute!  I'm afraid I have to agree. /grin/

I know a couple of the older regular sized shepherds around here, and still
retain my happy fantasy that going shepherd or dobe next time would solve
the cuteness problem.  Then again, I do adore my poodle...  /smile/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Linda Gwizdak
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:56 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names

Hi, Tami,
The Seeing Eye frequently gets new German shepherd breeding stock from 
Germany.  Since I haven't had a German shepherd in over 10 years, I don't 
know what they are like. I get the Labs and Lab crosses and I work the best 
with those.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names


> Michelle,
>
>>From what I know from inquiring into it when I was applying to guide dog
> programs when shepherds were even harder to get than poodles already, it
> seems to have had a lot to do with health and temperament.  More with
> health.  The problems lowered their success rate and raised the cost of 
> each
> success.  Because of the problems with the American German Shepherd at the
> time, and still, it is extremely expensive to bring a dog from a sounder
> European line to improve the genetics, etc., etc.
>
> Meanwhile, they have a really great line of labs and lab golden crosses, 
> so
> it makes sense that they decided to start focusing on those dogs while 
> they
> let the other breeds go.
>
> I think the reservation of those last shepherds for previous shepherd 
> users
> was simply a matter of scarcity.
>
> No clue if other factors may have been involved, but I have heard of other
> schools facing the same issues with their shepherd lines because of the
> faults that have been bred into the breed over here.  Sad.
>
> I keep meeting more and more of the older style shepherds with good strong
> toplines and hips, and I always ask where they're from and learn that if
> they're not from Europe, their sires and dams are.  There seem to be a
> number of breeders here and in Washington have been bringing in new stock 
> to
> start lines of their own, at least for their companion quality dogs.  Yay!
>
> Wonder if that will start to affect the show breeding?  Hope so!
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Michelle
> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:17 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>
> I'd like to know why shepherds aren't used in the GDB program, and why 
> don't
>
> first-timers get sheperds? I don't know a whole lot about sheperds...
>
> Michelle
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 6:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>
>
>> Hi Nichole,
>> When I was at Seeing Eye in 1999 to get Jacob, there were a litter of
>> Chocolate Labs in the class.  They were all medium to small in size.
>> Seeing
>> Eye tries to breed on the smaller size. I've seen some very huge Labs 
>> from
>> DGB!   The large ones tend to be mellow while many of the small Labs are
>> high energy.
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>
>>
>>> However, most of the chocolates that I have met in my life are quite
>>> large. I do not know if this is just a coincidence or if all chocolates
>>> are this way.  They were almost too large to be guides.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jonathan Lyens" <jonathan at lyens.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Julie,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for this. You have pointed out an important fact. Chocolate 
>>>> color
>>>> in labs is a recessive trait. GDB does not specifically breed for this
>>>> color, as it has nothing to do with the dogs suitability for guide 
>>>> work.
>>>> I'd have to believe if it made a difference, they'd modify their
>>>> breeding program.
>>>>
>>>> Best-
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan T. Lyens MPA
>>>> Email: jonathan at lyens.com
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Julie J
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:41 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>>>
>>>> Except for the color chocolate labs are the same as the other colors.
>>>> Here's an article I found that explains it pretty well.
>>>> http://www.labbies.com/genetics.htm
>>>>
>>>> The short version is that black is the dominant gene and most labs will
>>>> end
>>>> up this color.  The next most common color is yellow and chocolate 
>>>> comes
>>>> in
>>>> third.   Depending on your particular breeding program and the 
>>>> recessive
>>>>
>>>> genes in those dogs, chocolate labs may never appear.  It is totally a
>>>> color
>>>> thing and has nothing to do with health or temperament.
>>>>
>>>> HTH
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 7:21 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I was told by a GDB graduate that GDB didn't use chocolate Labs because
>>>>
>>>>>they weren't as good as the black or yellow ones. But, maybe they just
>>>>>don't have them.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it is true about the bloodlines, they would have to have only
>>>> breeding
>>>>> stock that has either a family tree of only black or yellow genes.
>>>> Lots of
>>>>> times a black Lab with yellow genes can welp chocolates - chocolates
>>>> must
>>>>> have both black and yellow genes to make the brown color.  They have
>>>> to be
>>>>> occasionally bred to black Labs to keep the chocolate color dark and
>>>> rich.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:03 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't quote me on this one, but I've heard that it is not so much
>>>> "won't
>>>>>> use" chocolates as that they just are not in the blood line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:31 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nicole,
>>>>>>>>From what I've heard, GDB no longer uses German shepherds and they
>>>> also
>>>>>>> don't use chocolate Labs. I can understand the shepherds but don't
>>>> know
>>>>>>> why they won't use chocolate Labs.  Seeing Eye uses them without any
>>>>
>>>>>>> more problems than with any other colored Labs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:48 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes... it's ashame.  I was stuck on shepherds for a while, but I
>>>>>>>> realized that I probably was not going to get one from GDB.  They
>>>>>>>> usually do not give first timers shepherds.  Also, the number was
>>>> so
>>>>>>>> low that I would rather leave what there was for the people who
>>>> would
>>>>>>>> take nothing else. However, I did get to visit with one of the
>>>>>>>> shepherds who was going out in the next class.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:54 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marion,
>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GDF will encounter the same problems with German
>>>> shepherds
>>>>>>>>> as GDB?  It's a shame how this beautiful breed has been ruined by
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> show-dog crowd!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know aboout the "pressure" of being the first one in something.
>>>> In
>>>>>>>>> my work with the Humane Society, I am the first disabled person
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> their service dog to join the Pet-Assisted Therapy Program.
>>>> they've
>>>>>>>>> had lots of puppy-raisers and their service dog pups, but not
>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>> like me. they are very happy with my and Landon's performance of
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> job that another program wants me to join them!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You'll do fine - and the new shepherd guide!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:08 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Linda,
>>>>>>>>>>    GDF hasn't trained Shepherds in more than 20 years. Because I
>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> so much experience with the breed, they are re-introducing them
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> me as their first handler. Oh, the pressure! (smile)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:54 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Marion,
>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't think Guide Dog Foundation used German shepherds
>>>> anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>> The name "Sarge" seems to fit a shepherd more than it would a
>>>> Lab.
>>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend at the Naval Medical Center who has a Lab named
>>>>>>>>>>> "Scout".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My dog, Landon is named for Michael Landon actor in the old TV
>>>>>>>>>>> series, "Bonanza" - Little Joe who was always fighting!  The
>>>> actor
>>>>>>>>>>> Landon was also in "Little House on the Prairie" and I think
>>>>>>>>>>> "Stairway to Heaven". He was a more mature and peaceful
>>>> charactor on
>>>>>>>>>>> those two shows! I enjoyed the first two shows!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My old dogs were Heidi, Charm (and she was!), Brownie (my Mom
>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>> for her brown eyes - she was black!), Olivia, Hanna, Janelle,
>>>> Jacob,
>>>>>>>>>>> and now Landon. I liked all the names and didn't feel the need
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> change them.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:37 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Interesting Names Re: guide dog book about
>>>>>>>>>>> young person
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rox,
>>>>>>>>>>>>    When I first heard my future guide dog's name, my first
>>>>>>>>>>>> impression was, "Oh, no! That will need to change!" However,
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> more I have learned about him, the more his name seems to fit
>>>> him!
>>>>>>>>>>>> He is a big German Shepherd,weighing in at 91 lbs. about three
>>>>>>>>>>>> weeks ago and not yet 2 years old. He has an all black face and
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> gold eyes! His name is Sarge!
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Now, I'm a fairly liberal person and would consider myself a
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> peace activist, so the name seemed a little out-of-place for
>>>> me. At
>>>>>>>>>>>> the same time, my first trainer was also the Founder and
>>>> Executive
>>>>>>>>>>>> Director of the school from which I recieved my first three
>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs. He is now the Director of Training (I think they call it
>>>>>>>>>>>> Training Officer) for the Guide Dog Foundation for the Blind.
>>>> His
>>>>>>>>>>>> name? Well, Mike Sargeant, often called "Sarge"! When I spoke
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> him the last time, he referred to my dog as "my namesake"! Mike
>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> a great guy and I count him as a close colleague, so I couldn't
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> change Sarge's name now! BTW, Mike told me he thought of
>>>> changing
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarge's name himself just to rattle my cage! To what? Well, he
>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>>> he thought of "ACB"! Nice guy, huh? And I call him a friend?
>>>> (big
>>>>>>>>>>>> grin)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:45 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Interesting Names Re: guide dog book about
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> young person
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I adopted Laveau from the humane society, her name was
>>>> Marge.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That had to go because... it just did.  It didn't take her
>>>> long to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch and now when I say or sign her name she wags like
>>>> crazy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> She was only a year old and I don't know how long she had been
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck with the horrid moniker of Marge.  No offense to anyone
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that name but it just wasn't for her.  Also I'm a huge Harry
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Potter fan and everyone would have called her aunt Marge.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "It's wildly irritating to have invented something as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> revolutionary as sarcasm, only to have it abused by amateurs."
>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christopher Moore
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>>
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>>>> rizon.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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