[nagdu] researching programs

Linda Gwizdak linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Sun Feb 14 18:25:38 UTC 2010


AMEN TO THAT, Marion. I will not go to a school with a contract or who 
retains ownership.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] researching programs


> Mark,
>    Though it "should" be that the schools not interfere with you, there 
> are some schools who have been known to take (or attempt to take) dogs 
> away without evidence of abuse or neglect. I know of cases in which a 
> school has threatened to take a dog away because they asserted it was 
> overweight when the dog's vet said it was not. The same school took the 
> harnesses away from two graduates because people who did not like the 
> graduates said they were abusing the dogs, even though an investigation by 
> animal services concluded the dogs were not being abused or neglected. I 
> am of the opinion that schools that do not grant ownership upon 
> graduation, as a matter of policy, have an underlying belief in the lack 
> of the capacity of blind people to care for their dogs.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 4:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] researching programs
>
>
>> So, from what I understand, owning the dog is nice, but not essential. 
>> From what you are saying, it appears that if the school owns the dog 
>> there should be no problems so long as I treat the dog properly. Correct 
>> me if I am wrong.
>>
>> What schools let you own the dog either immediately after graduation, or 
>> after a trial period.
>>
>> I don't know why someone would ever mistreat an animal, but that is off 
>> topic.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] researching programs
>>
>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> I have my own personal feelings about ownership but for purposes of this
>>> discussion, I'll give you the technical answer to the difference between
>>> ownership and custody, or whatever term the particular school uses that
>>> means they have legal ownership of the dog. Others here will more 
>>> eloquently
>>> give the philosophical perspective.
>>>
>>> When you legally own your dog, you literally own it. The school cannot 
>>> take
>>> your dog away without a third party being involved, and usually without 
>>> some
>>> type of legal action against you.
>>>
>>> Let me preface that by saying for most school staff the last thing we 
>>> want
>>> to do is to take a dog away from someone. We want to help make the team 
>>> as
>>> good as it can be.
>>>
>>> Now, let's say the rare, and it is extremely rare, instance occurs when 
>>> we
>>> misjudge someone's ability to handle the responsibility of a dog. The 
>>> person
>>> might be fine initially but life may change and for this example, let's 
>>> say
>>> he or she is seen physically abusing the dog. There is also evidence,
>>> through the dog's medical condition, that it is being neglected. People 
>>> in
>>> the community have called the school to report this person.
>>>
>>> The first thing any school should do, and again, most do this, is to 
>>> contact
>>> the handler directly and discuss the complaints, offering help. We all 
>>> know
>>> that sometimes things can be misinterpreted.
>>>
>>> Let's say this "worst case scenario" continues and the handler in 
>>> question
>>> refuses the school's help. Complaints continue and the dog's condition
>>> worsens or doesn't improve.
>>>
>>> Most local animal cruelty statutes don't include the kinds of things we
>>> would think of as cruelty toward a guide dog. They involve excessive 
>>> times
>>> without food, water, shelter, or witnessed beating, open wounds,
>>> malnutrition, etc. Also, many animal control officers don't want to get
>>> involved with service animals because they fear being sued for civil 
>>> rights
>>> violations.
>>>
>>> Yes, I know, there are other animal control officers with the very 
>>> opposite
>>> point of view and actions, overreacting to a standard leash correction. 
>>> I've
>>> actually talked to both types in the same department, sadly in the same 
>>> day
>>> once.
>>>
>>> So, what are all of us who are worried about the welfare of this dog to 
>>> do?
>>> Well, if the handler legally owns the dog, all we can do is to go 
>>> through
>>> the legal processes of his or her community, city, county, etc., to take 
>>> the
>>> dog away. This could mean anything from petitioning a court to getting a 
>>> vet
>>> to testify about the dog's condition. It all depends on the local laws.
>>>
>>> Now, on the bright side of ownership, the bright technical side that is, 
>>> if
>>> you are ever involved in an accident, struck by  a car, etc. owning the 
>>> dog
>>> means that you are legally entitled to ask for any number of things in a
>>> settlement that you may not have gotten if you didn't legally own the 
>>> dog.
>>> There have been cases, and I wish I still had the citations, in which a
>>> judge stated that because the school owned the dog, only it could come
>>> forward to collect reimbursement of vet expenses, etc.
>>>
>>> This issue is less important now than it was even 10 years ago thanks to
>>> many states passing guide dog protection laws that specify people be
>>> reimbursed regardless of who legally owns the dog.
>>>
>>> The truly positive technical part of ownership is that you are the final
>>> arbitrator of all decisions regarding your dog, from where it goes when 
>>> it
>>> retires to its medical care, etc.
>>>
>>> If the school retains custody of the dog for whatever reason or under
>>> whatever conditions, then in most cases, it can reclaim the dog without 
>>> a
>>> third party being involved. Again, for most schools this is an absolute 
>>> last
>>> resort.
>>>
>>> If you want ownership because you are worried that a school will take 
>>> your
>>> dog, you may want to consider another school. Ownership is a trust 
>>> issue.
>>> Granting it is the school's way of saying that they trust you and your
>>> abilities to care for and work this dog.
>>>
>>> Hope that helps. It in no way means that those who choose schools that 
>>> don't
>>> grant any form of ownership have made poor choices or are less valued by
>>> their schools.
>>> Jenine Stanley
>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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>
>
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