[nagdu] calling the program was researching programs

Fri Feb 19 18:24:51 UTC 2010

Hi Ann,
I think you have a good point here in regards to dog handling. It seems that 
the dog owning public are going more towards the reward system and the 
"click and treat" and people are getting away from choke collars and leash 
corrections that are still being used by most of the guide dog schools.

I see this trend while I work in my Humane Society programs.  They use no 
choke collars on any of their dogs.  I see volunteers walking the shelter 
dogs all the time and they use either a head collar, nylon martingale collar 
or this other kind that is like a harness with the leash attachment ring at 
the front of the chest. There is no choking or pressure on the neck.  When 
I'm in our programs, I use a nylon martingale collar on Landon and have the 
leash attached to that. He still wears his choke collar that is holding his 
tags.

In my case, the HS program people realize that my dog was trained with the 
regular chain choke and therefore they don't have any problem with me having 
it on Landon.  When I really need to control Landon while visiting, I hold 
him by the small loop of the martingale collar but when out on the streets, 
a correction with this collar has no effect on him - he needs the chain 
collar then.

I think GDB is starting to get away from chain collars.  They're now using a 
martingale collar with nylon for the part around the neck with the small 
loop being chain.  You get the chain sound while doing a correction but not 
the total choking as there is with an ordinary chain choke collar.  They are 
also using the "click and treat" method in their training and the dogs 
appear to be "softer".  I have heard different reviews on using the clicker 
and having to carry around treats - some feel it is a royal pain and others 
like it.

Seeing Eye hasn't done this yet but they do use the clicker training during 
the dog's training before we get them.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs

> Hi, Julie and All,
>
> Yes, I have heard of other situations where non-blind people are reported 
> to authorities without being directly confronted with the concerns 
> first--specifically, I have heard of situations where babysitters and 
> daycare workers have called child protective services to report suspected 
> child abuse when they notice "black and blue" marks on the bodies of 
> adopted Asian children.  These people don't understand that the coloration 
> is natural and not caused by beatings or other abuse.  And they don't ask 
> the parents about it; they just assume the worst.  I think the situation 
> is similar to the one of a blind person and guide dog--well-meaning people 
> with little knowledge and a lot of ignorance.
>
> My personal belief is that if blind handlers were instructed in positive 
> training and handling methods, and if guide dogs were routinely trained 
> using positive reinforcement and a marker signal instead of through 
> correction, that handlers would present a more favorable image to the 
> general public of their relationship with their guide dogs.  The handlers 
> would have a better understanding of animal behavior and learning and of 
> why their dogs sometimes do not perform as they "are supposed to."  The 
> handlers would be much less likely to get into those situations of 
> frustration where correction has a tendency to escalate.  The dogs would 
> work better and look happier.  This might reduce the negative impression 
> that some members of the public experience when observing working teams, 
> and might cut down on some of the "abuse" calls to schools.  This would 
> not eliminate those situations where the blind person is accused of abuse 
> for not allowing the guide dog to be petted or interfered with by ignorant 
> members of the public.  But it might cut down on some of the more common 
> excuses for abuse reports.
>
> Best,
> Ann
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs
>
>
>> Jeanine,
>>
>> It's very good to hear that you don't accept anonymous complaints at GDF. 
>> If someone can't give their name it would make me wonder about the 
>> validity of their statement.  It's too easy to make up stories if you can 
>> hide behind anonymity.
>>
>> Got any ideas why the public doesn't address the blind person directly 
>> about the issue?  Or at least why they don't try that approach first?
>>
>> Is tattling a societal thing or just a blind people thing?  When I used 
>> to work in rehab the O&M instructor would occasionally get phone calls 
>> about some blind person or another who was out alone and crossing 
>> dangerous intersections or something similarly inappropriate for a blind 
>> person to do. *smile*
>>
>> I'm trying to think of a parallel situation that doesn't involve blind 
>> people where sighted people turn each other in for perceived 
>> indescressions. I can't think of any sort of situation.   of a 
>> noncriminal nature.  Perhaps it is a blindness/disability thing 
>> exclusively.
>>
>> Sometimes I think too much! LOL
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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