[nagdu] calling the program was researching programs

Sat Feb 20 11:53:44 UTC 2010

Lyn,

I use the nylon and chain combo martingale collar with Monty.  I also use a 
clicker and treats.  Although for the past couple of months I haven't been 
using the actual clicker, but just a tongue click. Since I've been having 
good luck remembering to bring my head wherever I go, it's been working out 
well! LOL

I wouldn't categorize Monty as a soft dog by any stretch of the imagination. 
I, personally, don't think harder dogs need harder corrections, just firmer 
handling.

JMHO
Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs

> Hi Ann,
> I think you have a good point here in regards to dog handling. It seems 
> that the dog owning public are going more towards the reward system and 
> the "click and treat" and people are getting away from choke collars and 
> leash corrections that are still being used by most of the guide dog 
> schools.
>
> I see this trend while I work in my Humane Society programs.  They use no 
> choke collars on any of their dogs.  I see volunteers walking the shelter 
> dogs all the time and they use either a head collar, nylon martingale 
> collar or this other kind that is like a harness with the leash attachment 
> ring at the front of the chest. There is no choking or pressure on the 
> neck.  When I'm in our programs, I use a nylon martingale collar on Landon 
> and have the leash attached to that. He still wears his choke collar that 
> is holding his tags.
>
> In my case, the HS program people realize that my dog was trained with the 
> regular chain choke and therefore they don't have any problem with me 
> having it on Landon.  When I really need to control Landon while visiting, 
> I hold him by the small loop of the martingale collar but when out on the 
> streets, a correction with this collar has no effect on him - he needs the 
> chain collar then.
>
> I think GDB is starting to get away from chain collars.  They're now using 
> a martingale collar with nylon for the part around the neck with the small 
> loop being chain.  You get the chain sound while doing a correction but 
> not the total choking as there is with an ordinary chain choke collar. 
> They are also using the "click and treat" method in their training and the 
> dogs appear to be "softer".  I have heard different reviews on using the 
> clicker and having to carry around treats - some feel it is a royal pain 
> and others like it.
>
> Seeing Eye hasn't done this yet but they do use the clicker training 
> during the dog's training before we get them.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs
>
>
>> Hi, Julie and All,
>>
>> Yes, I have heard of other situations where non-blind people are reported 
>> to authorities without being directly confronted with the concerns 
>> first--specifically, I have heard of situations where babysitters and 
>> daycare workers have called child protective services to report suspected 
>> child abuse when they notice "black and blue" marks on the bodies of 
>> adopted Asian children.  These people don't understand that the 
>> coloration is natural and not caused by beatings or other abuse.  And 
>> they don't ask the parents about it; they just assume the worst.  I think 
>> the situation is similar to the one of a blind person and guide 
>> dog--well-meaning people with little knowledge and a lot of ignorance.
>>
>> My personal belief is that if blind handlers were instructed in positive 
>> training and handling methods, and if guide dogs were routinely trained 
>> using positive reinforcement and a marker signal instead of through 
>> correction, that handlers would present a more favorable image to the 
>> general public of their relationship with their guide dogs.  The handlers 
>> would have a better understanding of animal behavior and learning and of 
>> why their dogs sometimes do not perform as they "are supposed to."  The 
>> handlers would be much less likely to get into those situations of 
>> frustration where correction has a tendency to escalate.  The dogs would 
>> work better and look happier.  This might reduce the negative impression 
>> that some members of the public experience when observing working teams, 
>> and might cut down on some of the "abuse" calls to schools.  This would 
>> not eliminate those situations where the blind person is accused of abuse 
>> for not allowing the guide dog to be petted or interfered with by 
>> ignorant members of the public.  But it might cut down on some of the 
>> more common excuses for abuse reports.
>>
>> Best,
>> Ann
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs
>>
>>
>>> Jeanine,
>>>
>>> It's very good to hear that you don't accept anonymous complaints at 
>>> GDF. If someone can't give their name it would make me wonder about the 
>>> validity of their statement.  It's too easy to make up stories if you 
>>> can hide behind anonymity.
>>>
>>> Got any ideas why the public doesn't address the blind person directly 
>>> about the issue?  Or at least why they don't try that approach first?
>>>
>>> Is tattling a societal thing or just a blind people thing?  When I used 
>>> to work in rehab the O&M instructor would occasionally get phone calls 
>>> about some blind person or another who was out alone and crossing 
>>> dangerous intersections or something similarly inappropriate for a blind 
>>> person to do. *smile*
>>>
>>> I'm trying to think of a parallel situation that doesn't involve blind 
>>> people where sighted people turn each other in for perceived 
>>> indescressions. I can't think of any sort of situation.   of a 
>>> noncriminal nature.  Perhaps it is a blindness/disability thing 
>>> exclusively.
>>>
>>> Sometimes I think too much! LOL
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
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