[nagdu] Get control of that dog

Sat Feb 20 20:15:35 UTC 2010

Yeah, I do get the impression some take as a bit of a, well, you know when I
have my 'tude on.  I'm more comfortable being all happy go lucky, too, but
then people seem to feel more free to put their hands on the dog....

It was difficult for me to learn how to deal with the different way people
responded to me once I was seen as blind, and spent some time and worry
trying to figure out how to act to avoid having other people act badly....

Then I suddenly woke up and realized that it's not up to me to control their
behavior and attitudes, only my own.  If I emphasize my own self-confidence
and competence, that some people feel all hostile about it is their problem,
not mine.  Also, I think that after awhile, you just get bored with the same
old thing and stop caring.  Or that's how it was with me.

So as long as they keep their hands off my dog, I'm okay with them and their
feelings.  /grin/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Michelle
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:03 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Get control of that dog

Hi,

I don't mind the ranting emails, I think it's good for people to rant. 
That's just my opinion and I've always been like that. I guess you know 
already from my rantings!

I'm glad that your experiences with appearing more competent seem to work 
most of the time with you, because generally people look at you like ok, 
she's in control here right? Well, unfortunately, with me it's not always 
the case. As a totally blind person, if I do act in control, I'm seen as a 
control-freak by many people. If I act relaxed and happy-go-lucky, which is 
the real me, although I'm in control still, then I'm taken advantage of. Yet

if I'm assertive, people take it to mean I don't like their assistance, or 
that I just don't want them near me when I've got the dog. Those feelings to

me are cop-out ways of dealing with the fact that those person(s) choose to 
deny that I'm the only one who's allowed to control the dog while it's in 
harness and on lead unless I express otherwise.

I may simply have to stop riding with that person as others have said, or as

one person wrote, I should just be a little rude if they act like this 
again, knowing that I obviously may not ride with them again anyway.

Cheers,

Michelle
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Get control of that dog

> Michelle,
>
> Oh, yeah, I have had that happen a few times.  My dog is pretty good about
> not taking commands from others, and she used to freak when someone else
> would take her leash or harness handle, even sometimes when I told her to 
> go
> with them.  Even now, she will let DD hold her leash, so long as she can 
> see
> me, but if he forgets and picks up the handle, she gives him The Look, and
> he guiltily puts it down.  I haven't had strangers do a handle grab 
> lately,
> but she tends to make it very clear to people that she is not going to go
> with them and wants to be elsewhere.  Which leaves me in a bit of a lurch
> until we get things sorted out.
>
> Like you, when it does happen, I always have a huge internal conflict
> between my absolute fury, my concern for my dog and for my own safety and
> independence, and a distate for descending to open rudeness and causing a
> scene.  In my head, I may be jumping up and down shrieking cusswords at 
> the
> top of my lungs, but I've never actually done it, since it's not really my
> style.  /smile/
>
> I also found out during the first few incidents that the sort of people 
> who
> will take control (or try) of a guide dog are also the sort whose ears are
> untouched by the sound waves emanating from the blind person's mouth. 
> I've
> run into a few people like that and find myself wondering if the fact that

> I
> hear what I'm saying means I've taken to hallucinating.  Very frustrating,
> especially since I'm attempting to communicate to the other person that I
> wish for them to leave my dog alone, get out of my way, or just generally
> stop doing what they're doing that has inspired me to speak to them in the
> first place.  When I was new to blindness, this was especially mind
> mangling, because I had not encountered the phenomenon before!  OMG!
>
> Anyway, with Mitzi, since she would be all weirded out and discombobulated
> and trying to escape to get to me while the person would be trying to push
> past me to get hold of her, I would turn my attention to calming her and
> allowing her to duck behind me so that I could put myself bodily in front 
> of
> the other person.  I think in one or two cases, I actually started 
> brushing
> their hands away and moving towards a less passive body block.  Only a
> couple of people have ever been that persistent, but what else can one do?
>
> Most others realize their mistake from Mitzi's reaction and give it up,
> although they will continue to give voice commands then start acting very
> snarky and disapproving when she doesn't obey them.  They then decide to
> speak to me on the subject of how guide dogs are supposed to be 
> obedient...
> Which just makes me mad, but it does give me an excellent opportunity to 
> put
> my snoot on and explain in an obnoxiously didactic tone about intelligent
> disobedience and how guide dogs are trained for that sort of thing and 
> that
> Mitzi is doing exactly as she should and I am proud of her.  Using every
> ten-penny word at my disposal, of course!  Then I pause to let them rest a
> beat or two before I tilt my head at them and widen my eyes a bit more and
> smile.  Works like a charm!  So I keep doing it, even though I privately
> believe it's just petty to mess with someone's head like that.  /grin/
>
> I think part of the reason I've had few incidents as time goes on is that
> when I find myself heading into a situation where someone is going to 
> insist
> on being helpful, I put on my 'tude beforehand and make extra sure I have 
> a
> firm grip on the harness and maintain position with my dog at all times. 
> We
> get a little sloppy about that when we're all relaxed and casual, but when
> we're both locked into our proper places like we know what we're doing, I
> think it presents a more competent, confident image.  Also, there is less
> opportunity for a determined helper to get their hands on the dog! 
> /smile/
>
> It also helps to lower my voice and project from my diaphragm when I greet
> the person, and to start things off with more coolly correct courtesy than
> open friendliness until I'm sure we all know what we're supposed to do.
> They're less likely to take me as a dingbat or hick or whatever impression
> they're likely to get from my usual unfortunate country twang.  With that
> special squeak that comes out when I get excited.
>
> Also, I think that for a woman, it can really help to overcome cultural
> stereotypes and even use them by using a more firmly supported voice in
> lower registers.  For me, at least, that seems to be true in how others
> respond to me.
>
> Sorry for the rambling explanation.  I don't have a specific technique or
> method, just sort of what Mitzi and I have worked out between us to make
> life easier using our natural tendencies.
>
> If I had a less velcro dog -- and she can pour on the superglue when she
> wants to -- I would probably do things entirely differently.  Or if I were

> a
> less stubborn personality!  There have been a few times when I realized
> belatedly that I had just done an awful lot of dancing around in an
> unfamiliar environment where my vision wasn't telling me a thing and that
> was just downright stupid dangerous.  Apparently, I am the sort of person
> who would rather fall off a cliff than let someone mess with my dog!  I've
> had a lot of stern conversations with myself over that one, and now do a
> much better job of keeping my feet to the spot I've already determined is
> safe and secure.  Good grief!
>
> Hang in there!  It's awful for people to do that to you.  It puts you in
> danger.  It's against the law, at least in many states, for them to
> interfere with your guide.  It can screw with your guide's training, and 
> it
> can leave you navigating around wherever you were going in the first place
> with a stressed dog.  Even if the dog can continue to perform, it's just 
> not
> fair for someone to make a hard job that much harder.  For that matter, 
> I've
> discovered that the extra attention I need to give to Mitzi's nerves and
> confidence make my job of navigating much harder, as well.
>
> Anyway, you'll get lots of great advice from everybody.  Let us know how 
> you
> work things out for you and Troy.  I'll probably learn something very
> helpful to use next time Mitzi and I dance that dance.  /smile/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Michelle
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 2:35 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nagdu] Get control of that dog
>
> Hi,
>
> Could you let me know what you do when you're in a situation where other
> people are instructing your guide dog when they clearly haven't warned you
> and have not asked your permission? An example for me is when I'm getting 
> a
> lift somewhere and the person helping me out starts telling the dog what 
> to
> do, telling me how to instruct the dog, what to do with the dog etc. I 
> know
> that they are well-meaning and helpful, but then when it extends to the
> person picking up the harness and giving it to me, completely controlling 
> my
> life and my situation for me without me being allowed to think and act for
> myself, it really gets under my bonnet. After informing the person that 
> I'll
> handle the dog when I'm getting out of the car, this person will have the
> hide to tell the dog to sit and stay! I hate being rude, so what do I do?
>
> I don't mind what advice you give me, please tell me to be rude if I have 
> to
> be. I'm sick of being treated as an invalid to suit others, because it
> really confuses my dog to no end, poor fellow.
>
> Thank you very much and cheers!
>
> Michelle and Troy
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