[nagdu] ownership

Albert J Rizzi albert at myblindspot.org
Sat Jan 2 15:44:09 UTC 2010


More or less what I remember, but what about that harness thing.  I remember
being led to believe that it was illegal for anyone to own a harness who was
not blind or a service animal user as defined by the ADA is that true?

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of cheryl echevarria
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:29 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] ownership

I have the ownership agreement Marion.

It basically states, I own maxx but not his harness and that is the property
of GDF. If in the future I decided that I cannot care for maxx and cannot
find him a home, then I can bring him back to the school.

I think Jeanine Stanley is on here and she should be able to go into it as
well.  I also get assistance with the school in the way of vet care.  

That is how I understand it.

Cheryl Echevarria 
Independent Contractor
www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
1-866-580-5574
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Marion & Martin<mailto:swampfox1833 at verizon.net> 
  To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
  Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:11 AM
  Subject: Re: [nagdu] ownership


      Though GDF does provide ownership, there are some strings attached
that 
  I intend to discuss with them. Since I do not have the ownership agreement

  in front of me, I will withhold my comments concerning the details.

  Fraternally yours,
  Marion Gwizdala



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net<mailto:julielj at windstream.net>>
  To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
  <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
  Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 5:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [nagdu] ownership


  > Albert,
  >
  > GDF does offer ownership.
  >
  > For me ownership is an absolute must.  People's views on ownership vary 
  > considerably.  We've discussed it here before and I'm sure it will come
up 
  > in another 6 months again.  It is one of the topics that we all just
agree 
  > to disagree on.
  >
  > We've discussed financial contributions toward the price of a guide dog 
  > too. I'm still in favor.  Perhaps it's my own personal issues that make
me 
  > feel uncomfortable  with the idea of not paying for something.  I don't 
  > know.
  >
  > Julie
  >
  >
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: "cheryl echevarria"
<cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com<mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>>
  > To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
  > <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
  > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 10:52 AM
  > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Few: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >
  >
  >> Well I own my dog, I am not borrowing Maxx and giving him back when he 
  >> retires.
  >>
  >> Cheryl Echevarria
  >> Independent Contractor
  >>
www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/<http://www.echevar
riatravel.com%3chttp//www.echevarriatravel.com/>>
  >> 1-866-580-5574
  >>
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<m
ailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservations at echevarriatrav
el.com>>
  >> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel 
  >> CST-1018299-10
  >> You can also find me on:
  >> Facebook: Echevarriatravel.com
  >> LinkedIn: Cheryl Echevarria
  >>  ----- Original Message ----- 
  >>  From: Albert J
Rizzi<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
  >>  To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
  >> Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
  >>  Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 11:27 AM
  >>  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Few: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>
  >>
  >>  It was also presented to us that, and perhaps such was said to drive 
  >> others
  >>  away from one school or another, but that a blind person should not 
  >> expect
  >>  to pay anything for a guide. But cheryl, Margo let me know that those
  >>  handlers going to seeing eye in fact, for the nominal fee she told me 
  >> about,
  >>  allows for complete ownership of the guide, where you and I simply are
  >>  loaned the dog, and if push ever came to shove, they could take the
dog 
  >> back
  >>  if cause was justified. I am inclined to see the value of contributing

  >> in
  >>  some way to the process, to help keep costs down. I myself have seen
fit 
  >> to
  >>  actively participate in raising over 75k for the gdf as a way to pay
for 
  >> the
  >>  privilege of getting a guide.
  >>
  >>  Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  >>  CEO/Founder
  >>  My Blind Spot, Inc.
  >>  90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  >>  New York, New York  10004
  >>
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
  >>  PH: 917-553-0347
  >>  Fax: 212-858-5759
  >>  "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who 
  >> is
  >>  doing it."
  >>
  >>
  >>  Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>  -----Original Message-----
  >>  From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>> 
  >> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
  >>  Of cheryl echevarria
  >>  Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 7:54 AM
  >>  To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  >>  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>
  >>  Margo I totally understand this, since at the Guide Dog Foundation we
do 
  >> not
  >>  pay anything, and since Albert and I are both newly blind people with 
  >> our
  >>  first guide dogs, we don't know that other schools charge a price.  We
  >>  didn't and so that many others may not know this either.
  >>
  >>  Cheryl Echevarria
  >>  Independent Contractor
  >>
  >>
www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/<http://www.echevar
riatravel.com%3chttp//www.echevarriatravel.com/<http://www.echevarriatravel.
com%3chttp//www.echevarriatravel.com/%3Chttp://www.echevarriatravel.com%3cht
tp//www.echevarriatravel.com/>>>
  >>  1-866-580-5574
  >>
  >>
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<m
ailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservations at echevarriatrav
el.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservations at echeva
rriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservati
ons at echevarriatravel.com>>>
  >>  Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel 
  >> CST-1018299-10
  >>  You can also find me on:
  >>  Facebook: Echevarriatravel.com
  >>  LinkedIn: Cheryl Echevarria
  >>    ----- Original Message ----- 
  >>    From: Margo and 
  >>
Arrow<mailto:margo.downey at verizon.net<mailto:margo.downey at verizon.net<mailto
:margo.downey at verizon.net%3Cmailto:margo.downey at verizon.net>>>
  >>    To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
  >>
Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.or
g%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
  >>    Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:45 AM
  >>    Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>
  >>
  >>    Albert, I see nothing wrong with paying something for my dog guide.
  >>    Absolutely nothing.  what is this harsh reality stuff?  I don't
  >>  understand.
  >>
  >>    Margo and Arrow
  >>    ----- Original Message ----- 
  >>    From: "Albert J Rizzi"
  >>
  >>
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblinds
pot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmail
to:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at my
blindspot.org>>>>
  >>    To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
  >> Users'"
  >>
  >>
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
agdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
agdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>>
  >>    Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:52 PM
  >>    Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>
  >>
  >>    > Thank you for the kind words and for the suggested readings. Also,

  >> thank
  >>
  >>    > you
  >>    > for the harsh reality that some of my blind peers in fact are 
  >> required
  >>  to
  >>    > pay for their guides. I never knew that was the case as the 
  >> foundation I
  >>
  >>    > got
  >>    > my guide from required nothing of me just that I had strong cane 
  >> skills.
  >>
  >>    > I
  >>    > had no idea.  I also have been reading marching alone and walking
  >>  together
  >>    > and draw so much inspiration and determination from that book,
that 
  >> I am
  >>    > looking forward to reading your other suggestions.  I do realize
how 
  >> far
  >>
  >>    > the
  >>    > civil rights movement has come for the afircan Americans, women, 
  >> gays,
  >>  and
  >>    > oh so many others which make up the mosaic  that is our country. I

  >> also
  >>    > appreciate the advancements  realized for the blind and the
disabled
  >>    > community yet still am lost about understanding the whys of how
much
  >>  more
  >>    > needs to be done to ensure equality and access.  I have accepted
my
  >>    > calling
  >>    > to be a force to be reckoned  with to further the efforts of my
  >>    > predescesors
  >>    > and be a catalyst  to further that effort. I have much to learn,
and
  >>  have
  >>    > lost much, but not as much as I have gained in seeing life from
the 
  >> new
  >>    > perspective that blindness has brought to my life. Perhaps off
line 
  >> we
  >>    > could
  >>    > talk about my efforts which are well underway to making my county 
  >> and
  >>  then
  >>    > my state the model for technology access one school at a time, one

  >> town
  >>    > hall
  >>    > at a time and one county at a time, and then state by state.  I am

  >> here
  >>    > for
  >>    > the long haul and refuse to accept being marginalized or 
  >> disenfranchised
  >>
  >>    > by
  >>    > anyone or anything just because  I am blind. I did not accept it
as 
  >> a
  >>  gay
  >>    > man and I plan to work my blindness as positively  and
empoweringly 
  >> as
  >>  I
  >>    > did in getting others to see me as a man who happened to be gay 
  >> rather
  >>    > then
  >>    > a gay man.  I thank you and do know I value your experience  and
  >>  knowledge
  >>    > in this new way I navigate  life. Peace.
  >>    >
  >>    > Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  >>    > CEO/Founder
  >>    > My Blind Spot, Inc.
  >>    > 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  >>    > New York, New York  10004
  >>    > 
  >>
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
chttp//www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3chttp//www.myblindsp
ot.org/%3Chttp://www.myblindspot.org%3chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>>
  >>    > PH: 917-553-0347
  >>    > Fax: 212-858-5759
  >>    > "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the
one 
  >> who
  >>  is
  >>    > doing it."
  >>    >
  >>    >
  >>    > Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >>    >
  >>    >
  >>    >
  >>    > -----Original Message-----
  >>    > From: 
  >>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.o
rg%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmai
lto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>>
  >>  [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
  >>    > Of Julie J
  >>    > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:37 PM
  >>    > To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  >>    > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>    >
  >>    > Albert,
  >>    >
  >>    > Some guide dogs do cost substantial amounts of money.  The Seeing 
  >> Eye
  >>    > charges $150 for your first guide from there.  Noah's Assistance 
  >> Dogs
  >>    > charges $1,500 for a guide or service dog.  Some blind people
choose 
  >> to
  >>    > use
  >>    > a private trainer which could cost several thousand dollars.  I do

  >> know
  >>  of
  >>    > a
  >>    >
  >>    > couple other very small programs that charge substantial amounts
for
  >>  their
  >>    > guide dogs.  Owner trainers financial investments vary
considerably. 
  >> If
  >>
  >>    > you
  >>    >
  >>    > purchase a dog from a reputable breeder it could cost thousands. 
  >> Add in
  >>
  >>    > the
  >>    >
  >>    > cost of health screening tests, equipment, training expenses and 
  >> other
  >>    > incidentals and you could be looking at thousands of dollars on
top 
  >> of
  >>  the
  >>    > cost of the dog.
  >>    >
  >>    > You also mentioned that the Florida laws are a good starting
place, 
  >> but
  >>    > that
  >>    >
  >>    > individuals are still being denied access.  I'd like to point out 
  >> that
  >>    > civil
  >>    >
  >>    > rights laws for racial minority groups and women are much older
than 
  >> the
  >>
  >>    > ADA
  >>    >
  >>    > and those groups still experience discrimination.  It has only
been
  >>  about
  >>    > 20
  >>    >
  >>    > years for the ADA and I think we have made substantial progress in

  >> that
  >>    > time.  Social change isn't going to happen overnight.
  >>    >
  >>    > You admit being new to blindness and not understanding everything.

  >> I
  >>    > commend you for  being so diligent about learning.  I really think
  >>  reading
  >>    > everything you possibly can from
  >>    > 
  >>
http://www.nfb.org<http://www.nfb.org/<http://www.nfb.org%3chttp//www.nfb.or
g/<http://www.nfb.org%3chttp//www.nfb.org/%3Chttp://www.nfb.org%3chttp//www.
nfb.org/>>>
  >>    > especially the older more historical documents will help you 
  >> understand
  >>    > what
  >>    >
  >>    > blind people have struggled with and overcome in the past.  I
think 
  >> it
  >>    > might
  >>    >
  >>    > help you understand why many of the folks on this list have the 
  >> beliefs
  >>    > that
  >>    >
  >>    > we do.   We understand what has been tried, what worked and what 
  >> didn't.
  >>    > I've been legally blind for around 17 years now.  Many of the
people 
  >> on
  >>    > this
  >>    >
  >>    > list have been blind much longer than that and some their entire 
  >> life.
  >>  We
  >>    > are all still learning.
  >>    >
  >>    > If you can I'd also highly recommend reading "The Nature of
  >>  Independence"
  >>    > it's available at the NFB site I linked above.  This article
helped 
  >> me
  >>    > immensely when I was transitioning from newly acquired blindness 
  >> skills
  >>  to
  >>    > living in the real world.
  >>    >
  >>    > HTH
  >>    > Julie
  >>    >
  >>    >
  >>    > ----- Original Message ----- 
  >>    > From: "Albert J Rizzi"
  >>
  >>
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblinds
pot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmail
to:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at my
blindspot.org>>>>
  >>    > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
  >> Users'"
  >>    > 
  >>
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
agdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
agdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>>
  >>    > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:45 PM
  >>    > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>    >
  >>    >
  >>    >>I am not sure what costs would ne incurred, as I understand and as

  >> has
  >>    >>been
  >>    >> my experience, there is no cost for securing a guide dog.  I am
new 
  >> to
  >>    >> blindness and assume that most if not all organizations provide 
  >> guides
  >>    >> free
  >>    >> of charge. I agree with you that the certification process if it
is 
  >> to
  >>    >> be,
  >>    >> must be determined independently and not by any individual
school, 
  >> but
  >>  by
  >>    >> a
  >>    >> seasoned group of professionals, end users and others with the 
  >> skill
  >>  set
  >>    >> sufficient to create a certification  program which would better 
  >> ensure
  >>    >> well
  >>    >> trained guides for those who need them. I see how certification
has
  >>    >> impacted
  >>    >> so many other areas professionally, and I am inclined to feel
that
  >>    >> certification would not set anyone back. It would all be in how
we 
  >> as a
  >>    >> consumer roup direct that so as to ensure it is empowering and
  >>  promising
  >>    >> for
  >>    >> all.  I also do not see how this would impact our taxes since I
do 
  >> not
  >>    >> believe the certification of mobility instructors and teachers
and
  >>  others
  >>    >> is
  >>    >> a cost of those looking for the certification and education 
  >> sufficient
  >>    >> enough to be considered a professional in their respective
arenas. 
  >> I
  >>  see
  >>    >> how
  >>    >> the state protections in Florida are a good basis to grow from,
but 
  >> as
  >>    >> recently shared end users are still being denied access to stores

  >> and
  >>    >> transportation. We may need to work on educating all people about

  >> the
  >>  ADA
  >>    >> rather then worrying about trainers being denied access. Thanks.
  >>    >>
  >>    >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  >>    >> CEO/Founder
  >>    >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
  >>    >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  >>    >> New York, New York  10004
  >>    >> 
  >>
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
chttp//www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3chttp//www.myblindsp
ot.org/%3Chttp://www.myblindspot.org%3chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>>
  >>    >> PH: 917-553-0347
  >>    >> Fax: 212-858-5759
  >>    >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the
one 
  >> who
  >>
  >>    >> is
  >>    >> doing it."
  >>    >>
  >>    >>
  >>    >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >>    >>
  >>    >>
  >>    >>
  >>    >> -----Original Message-----
  >>    >> From: 
  >>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.o
rg%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmai
lto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>>
  >>  [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  >>    >> Behalf
  >>    >> Of Julie J
  >>    >> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:10 PM
  >>    >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users
  >>    >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>    >>
  >>    >> Albert,
  >>    >>
  >>    >> I will freely admit that the word "certification" scares the crap

  >> out
  >>  of
  >>    >> me.
  >>    >>
  >>    >> All the issues that Buddy, Steve, Rox'e, Linda and Marion have 
  >> brought
  >>  up
  >>    >> are my issues as well.
  >>    >>
  >>    >> I am like buddy, in that I am not actually opposed to 
  >> certification,
  >>  but
  >>    >> rather the implementation of that certification.   As of yet I
have 
  >> not
  >>    >> seen
  >>    >>
  >>    >> any sort of proposed scheme for certification that is fair, 
  >> unbiased
  >>  and
  >>    >> would not place a burden on the end user or taxpayers.  If
someone 
  >> can
  >>    >> convince me that their program for implementing certification
will 
  >> not
  >>    >> cost
  >>    >> more money and will not be biased I'll sign up.  Until then I'm a

  >> "no
  >>    >> certification" gal.
  >>    >>
  >>    >> I suppose my very serious lack of enthusiasm of certification
comes
  >>  from
  >>    >> the
  >>    >>
  >>    >> knowledge of previous government and blindness agency efforts to 
  >> "help"
  >>    >> the
  >>    >> blind or "enhance" our opportunities or some such other
stupidity. 
  >> I
  >>  am
  >>    >> not
  >>    >>
  >>    >> old enough to have been around during the times of protests, but
I 
  >> am
  >>  old
  >>    >> enough to know lots of other blind people who were.   Agencies 
  >> offering
  >>    >> accreditation or approval of various aspects of blindness
services 
  >> do
  >>  not
  >>    >> have a good track record.  Really I like the current laws and
would
  >>    >> rather
  >>    >> live with the minor inconveniencies of them than come up with new

  >> ones
  >>    >> that
  >>    >> would quite possibly take us back 50 years in personal freedoms
for
  >>  blind
  >>    >> people.
  >>    >>
  >>    >> JMO, a'course
  >>    >> Julie
  >>    >>
  >>    >>
  >>    >>
  >>    >> ----- Original Message ----- 
  >>    >> From: "Albert J Rizzi"
  >>
  >>
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblinds
pot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmail
to:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at my
blindspot.org>>>>
  >>    >> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
  >> Users'"
  >>    >> 
  >>
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
agdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
agdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>>
  >>    >> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:44 PM
  >>    >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>    >>
  >>    >>
  >>    >>> Lol, yeah sign me up for a self trained dog who can pour a
scotch.
  >>  Well
  >>    >>> why
  >>    >>> is there an assumption that certification will be granted by
  >>  individual
  >>    >>> schools, rather then an independent  body comprised of end users

  >> an
  >>    >>> professionals from the field?  Anything different would most 
  >> certainly
  >>    >>> appear self serving  for those schools to determined who is or
is 
  >> not
  >>  a
  >>    >>> certified trainer.  I am not supporting that dogs be certified, 
  >> but
  >>  that
  >>    >>> the
  >>    >>> trainer, much like others in the field of mobility are certified

  >> and
  >>    >>> trained
  >>    >>> either according to national, or as seems to be the preference,
a
  >>  state
  >>    >>> standard? Again, I would draw attention to the need for a guide
to 
  >> be
  >>    >>> introduced and worked in those everyday environments which they 
  >> will
  >>    >>> inevitably come up against once they are passed onto a handler. 
  >> Is
  >>  that
  >>    >>> not
  >>    >>> proper?  I mean there is significant training that goes into a 
  >> guide
  >>    >>> prior
  >>    >>> to even venturing out into the public? Am I correct in that 
  >> position?
  >>  I
  >>    >>> am
  >>    >>> not sure why it would seem odd to want our guides to be 
  >> sufficiently
  >>    >>> trained
  >>    >>> in areas where public accommodation  as defined under the ADA
are
  >>    >>> afforded?
  >>    >>>
  >>    >>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  >>    >>> CEO/Founder
  >>    >>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
  >>    >>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  >>    >>> New York, New York  10004
  >>    >>> 
  >>
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
chttp//www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3chttp//www.myblindsp
ot.org/%3Chttp://www.myblindspot.org%3chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>>
  >>    >>> PH: 917-553-0347
  >>    >>> Fax: 212-858-5759
  >>    >>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the 
  >> one
  >>  who
  >>    >>> is
  >>    >>> doing it."
  >>    >>>
  >>    >>>
  >>    >>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >>    >>>
  >>    >>>
  >>    >>> -----Original Message-----
  >>    >>> From: 
  >>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.o
rg%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmai
lto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>>
  >>  [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  >>    >>> Behalf
  >>    >>> Of The Pawpower Pack
  >>    >>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:04 PM
  >>    >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users
  >>    >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>    >>>
  >>    >>> Albert,
  >>    >>>
  >>    >>> Just to clarify; my dog is not self-trained.  She did not train
  >>    >>> herself.  If you ever find a dog who can train itself, let me 
  >> know.
  >>    >>> It'd save me quite a bit of work.  Grin!
  >>    >>>
  >>    >>> Many owner trainers actually don't really begin public access 
  >> training
  >>    >>> for quite some time.  I have known an owner trainer to train the

  >> guide
  >>    >>> work on streets and in places where the general public is
allowed 
  >> to
  >>    >>> bring their pets.  In some cities such as Portland Oregon, dogs 
  >> are
  >>    >>> allowed on pubtrans.
  >>    >>>
  >>    >>> I don't appose giving training staff the right to bring pups in
  >>    >>> training into places of public accommodation.
  >>    >>>
  >>    >>> There are two problems I have with this law, the first is the
word
  >>    >>> "certified."  I think it opens up a huge can of worms, and is a
  >>    >>> slippery slope from certifying trainers to certifying teams.  I 
  >> think
  >>    >>> it self-serving to allow the programs to certify their own 
  >> trainers
  >>    >>> and also as an owner trainer I would rather that the programs
not 
  >> be
  >>    >>> involved in certifying my dog.
  >>    >>> My second issue with this legislation is as Marion said.  I do
not
  >>    >>> think the ADA which is a law written to protect the civil rights

  >> of
  >>    >>> persons with disabilities is the place to address the rights of
  >>    >>> largely non-disabled trainers.
  >>    >>>
  >>    >>>
  >>    >>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
  >>    >>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
  >>    >>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really
won, 
  >> you
  >>    >>> earn it and win it in every generation."
  >>    >>> -- Coretta Scott King
  >>    >>> 
  >>
pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.
com%3Cmailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com%3Cmailto:paw
power4me at gmail.com%3Cmailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com%3Cmailto:pawpower4me at gmail
.com>>>
  >>    >>>
  >>    >>> Windows Live Only:
  >>
  >>
Brisomania at hotmail.com<mailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com<mailto:Brisomania at hotma
il.com%3Cmailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com<mailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com%3Cmailt
o:Brisomania at hotmail.com%3Cmailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com%3Cmailto:Brisomania
@hotmail.com>>>
  >>    >>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
  >>    >>>
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gdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
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t>><
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