[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Tue Jan 5 16:50:06 UTC 2010

We pay $150 at Guiding Eyes too.
Julie Phillipson
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 1:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort


> Fidelco requests, though I believe does not require, a $150 donation. 
> Leader I think used to charge $1, but I think otherwise, all the other 
> schools are free.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Jan 1, 2010, at 12:44 AM, Margo and Arrow wrote:
>
>> those of us who go to The Seeing eye do pay a fee for our dogs--it's a 
>> small fee.  I believe we're the only school which requires payment of any 
>> kind but could be wrong.
>>
>> margo and Arrow
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert J Rizzi" 
>> <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>> I am not sure what costs would ne incurred, as I understand and as has 
>>> been
>>> my experience, there is no cost for securing a guide dog.  I am new to
>>> blindness and assume that most if not all organizations provide guides 
>>> free
>>> of charge. I agree with you that the certification process if it is to 
>>> be,
>>> must be determined independently and not by any individual school, but 
>>> by a
>>> seasoned group of professionals, end users and others with the skill set
>>> sufficient to create a certification  program which would better ensure 
>>> well
>>> trained guides for those who need them. I see how certification has 
>>> impacted
>>> so many other areas professionally, and I am inclined to feel that
>>> certification would not set anyone back. It would all be in how we as a
>>> consumer roup direct that so as to ensure it is empowering and promising 
>>> for
>>> all.  I also do not see how this would impact our taxes since I do not
>>> believe the certification of mobility instructors and teachers and 
>>> others is
>>> a cost of those looking for the certification and education sufficient
>>> enough to be considered a professional in their respective arenas. I see 
>>> how
>>> the state protections in Florida are a good basis to grow from, but as
>>> recently shared end users are still being denied access to stores and
>>> transportation. We may need to work on educating all people about the 
>>> ADA
>>> rather then worrying about trainers being denied access. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Julie J
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:10 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>> Albert,
>>>
>>> I will freely admit that the word "certification" scares the crap out of 
>>> me.
>>>
>>> All the issues that Buddy, Steve, Rox'e, Linda and Marion have brought 
>>> up
>>> are my issues as well.
>>>
>>> I am like buddy, in that I am not actually opposed to certification, but
>>> rather the implementation of that certification.   As of yet I have not 
>>> seen
>>>
>>> any sort of proposed scheme for certification that is fair, unbiased and
>>> would not place a burden on the end user or taxpayers.  If someone can
>>> convince me that their program for implementing certification will not 
>>> cost
>>> more money and will not be biased I'll sign up.  Until then I'm a "no
>>> certification" gal.
>>>
>>> I suppose my very serious lack of enthusiasm of certification comes from 
>>> the
>>>
>>> knowledge of previous government and blindness agency efforts to "help" 
>>> the
>>> blind or "enhance" our opportunities or some such other stupidity.  I am 
>>> not
>>>
>>> old enough to have been around during the times of protests, but I am 
>>> old
>>> enough to know lots of other blind people who were.   Agencies offering
>>> accreditation or approval of various aspects of blindness services do 
>>> not
>>> have a good track record.  Really I like the current laws and would 
>>> rather
>>> live with the minor inconveniencies of them than come up with new ones 
>>> that
>>> would quite possibly take us back 50 years in personal freedoms for 
>>> blind
>>> people.
>>>
>>> JMO, a'course
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert J Rizzi" 
>>> <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:44 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>
>>>> Lol, yeah sign me up for a self trained dog who can pour a scotch. 
>>>> Well
>>>> why
>>>> is there an assumption that certification will be granted by individual
>>>> schools, rather then an independent  body comprised of end users an
>>>> professionals from the field?  Anything different would most certainly
>>>> appear self serving  for those schools to determined who is or is not a
>>>> certified trainer.  I am not supporting that dogs be certified, but 
>>>> that
>>>> the
>>>> trainer, much like others in the field of mobility are certified and
>>>> trained
>>>> either according to national, or as seems to be the preference, a state
>>>> standard? Again, I would draw attention to the need for a guide to be
>>>> introduced and worked in those everyday environments which they will
>>>> inevitably come up against once they are passed onto a handler.  Is 
>>>> that
>>>> not
>>>> proper?  I mean there is significant training that goes into a guide 
>>>> prior
>>>> to even venturing out into the public? Am I correct in that position? I 
>>>> am
>>>> not sure why it would seem odd to want our guides to be sufficiently
>>>> trained
>>>> in areas where public accommodation  as defined under the ADA are
>>>> afforded?
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of The Pawpower Pack
>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:04 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>> Albert,
>>>>
>>>> Just to clarify; my dog is not self-trained.  She did not train
>>>> herself.  If you ever find a dog who can train itself, let me know.
>>>> It'd save me quite a bit of work.  Grin!
>>>>
>>>> Many owner trainers actually don't really begin public access training
>>>> for quite some time.  I have known an owner trainer to train the guide
>>>> work on streets and in places where the general public is allowed to
>>>> bring their pets.  In some cities such as Portland Oregon, dogs are
>>>> allowed on pubtrans.
>>>>
>>>> I don't appose giving training staff the right to bring pups in
>>>> training into places of public accommodation.
>>>>
>>>> There are two problems I have with this law, the first is the word
>>>> "certified."  I think it opens up a huge can of worms, and is a
>>>> slippery slope from certifying trainers to certifying teams.  I think
>>>> it self-serving to allow the programs to certify their own trainers
>>>> and also as an owner trainer I would rather that the programs not be
>>>> involved in certifying my dog.
>>>> My second issue with this legislation is as Marion said.  I do not
>>>> think the ADA which is a law written to protect the civil rights of
>>>> persons with disabilities is the place to address the rights of
>>>> largely non-disabled trainers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
>>>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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