[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Tue Jan 5 20:10:50 UTC 2010

Julie,
    Why, if you pay $150, does Guiding Eyes not give ownership or have they 
changed their policy on this?

Fraternally yours,
Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JULIE PHILLIPSON" <jbrew48 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort


> We pay $150 at Guiding Eyes too.
> Julie Phillipson
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 1:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
>> Fidelco requests, though I believe does not require, a $150 donation.
>> Leader I think used to charge $1, but I think otherwise, all the other
>> schools are free.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 1, 2010, at 12:44 AM, Margo and Arrow wrote:
>>
>>> those of us who go to The Seeing eye do pay a fee for our dogs--it's a
>>> small fee.  I believe we're the only school which requires payment of 
>>> any
>>> kind but could be wrong.
>>>
>>> margo and Arrow
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert J Rizzi"
>>> <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:45 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>
>>>> I am not sure what costs would ne incurred, as I understand and as has
>>>> been
>>>> my experience, there is no cost for securing a guide dog.  I am new to
>>>> blindness and assume that most if not all organizations provide guides
>>>> free
>>>> of charge. I agree with you that the certification process if it is to
>>>> be,
>>>> must be determined independently and not by any individual school, but
>>>> by a
>>>> seasoned group of professionals, end users and others with the skill 
>>>> set
>>>> sufficient to create a certification  program which would better ensure
>>>> well
>>>> trained guides for those who need them. I see how certification has
>>>> impacted
>>>> so many other areas professionally, and I am inclined to feel that
>>>> certification would not set anyone back. It would all be in how we as a
>>>> consumer roup direct that so as to ensure it is empowering and 
>>>> promising
>>>> for
>>>> all.  I also do not see how this would impact our taxes since I do not
>>>> believe the certification of mobility instructors and teachers and
>>>> others is
>>>> a cost of those looking for the certification and education sufficient
>>>> enough to be considered a professional in their respective arenas. I 
>>>> see
>>>> how
>>>> the state protections in Florida are a good basis to grow from, but as
>>>> recently shared end users are still being denied access to stores and
>>>> transportation. We may need to work on educating all people about the
>>>> ADA
>>>> rather then worrying about trainers being denied access. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Julie J
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:10 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>> Albert,
>>>>
>>>> I will freely admit that the word "certification" scares the crap out 
>>>> of
>>>> me.
>>>>
>>>> All the issues that Buddy, Steve, Rox'e, Linda and Marion have brought
>>>> up
>>>> are my issues as well.
>>>>
>>>> I am like buddy, in that I am not actually opposed to certification, 
>>>> but
>>>> rather the implementation of that certification.   As of yet I have not
>>>> seen
>>>>
>>>> any sort of proposed scheme for certification that is fair, unbiased 
>>>> and
>>>> would not place a burden on the end user or taxpayers.  If someone can
>>>> convince me that their program for implementing certification will not
>>>> cost
>>>> more money and will not be biased I'll sign up.  Until then I'm a "no
>>>> certification" gal.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose my very serious lack of enthusiasm of certification comes 
>>>> from
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> knowledge of previous government and blindness agency efforts to "help"
>>>> the
>>>> blind or "enhance" our opportunities or some such other stupidity.  I 
>>>> am
>>>> not
>>>>
>>>> old enough to have been around during the times of protests, but I am
>>>> old
>>>> enough to know lots of other blind people who were.   Agencies offering
>>>> accreditation or approval of various aspects of blindness services do
>>>> not
>>>> have a good track record.  Really I like the current laws and would
>>>> rather
>>>> live with the minor inconveniencies of them than come up with new ones
>>>> that
>>>> would quite possibly take us back 50 years in personal freedoms for
>>>> blind
>>>> people.
>>>>
>>>> JMO, a'course
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert J Rizzi"
>>>> <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:44 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Lol, yeah sign me up for a self trained dog who can pour a scotch.
>>>>> Well
>>>>> why
>>>>> is there an assumption that certification will be granted by 
>>>>> individual
>>>>> schools, rather then an independent  body comprised of end users an
>>>>> professionals from the field?  Anything different would most certainly
>>>>> appear self serving  for those schools to determined who is or is not 
>>>>> a
>>>>> certified trainer.  I am not supporting that dogs be certified, but
>>>>> that
>>>>> the
>>>>> trainer, much like others in the field of mobility are certified and
>>>>> trained
>>>>> either according to national, or as seems to be the preference, a 
>>>>> state
>>>>> standard? Again, I would draw attention to the need for a guide to be
>>>>> introduced and worked in those everyday environments which they will
>>>>> inevitably come up against once they are passed onto a handler.  Is
>>>>> that
>>>>> not
>>>>> proper?  I mean there is significant training that goes into a guide
>>>>> prior
>>>>> to even venturing out into the public? Am I correct in that position? 
>>>>> I
>>>>> am
>>>>> not sure why it would seem odd to want our guides to be sufficiently
>>>>> trained
>>>>> in areas where public accommodation  as defined under the ADA are
>>>>> afforded?
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one 
>>>>> who
>>>>> is
>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of The Pawpower Pack
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:04 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert,
>>>>>
>>>>> Just to clarify; my dog is not self-trained.  She did not train
>>>>> herself.  If you ever find a dog who can train itself, let me know.
>>>>> It'd save me quite a bit of work.  Grin!
>>>>>
>>>>> Many owner trainers actually don't really begin public access training
>>>>> for quite some time.  I have known an owner trainer to train the guide
>>>>> work on streets and in places where the general public is allowed to
>>>>> bring their pets.  In some cities such as Portland Oregon, dogs are
>>>>> allowed on pubtrans.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't appose giving training staff the right to bring pups in
>>>>> training into places of public accommodation.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are two problems I have with this law, the first is the word
>>>>> "certified."  I think it opens up a huge can of worms, and is a
>>>>> slippery slope from certifying trainers to certifying teams.  I think
>>>>> it self-serving to allow the programs to certify their own trainers
>>>>> and also as an owner trainer I would rather that the programs not be
>>>>> involved in certifying my dog.
>>>>> My second issue with this legislation is as Marion said.  I do not
>>>>> think the ADA which is a law written to protect the civil rights of
>>>>> persons with disabilities is the place to address the rights of
>>>>> largely non-disabled trainers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
>>>>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>>>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
>>>>> org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream.
>>>> net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
>>>> org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jbrew48%40verizon.net
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2595 - Release Date: 
> 12/31/09
> 08:52:00
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2601 - Release Date: 01/05/10 
07:35:00


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40verizon.net
>