[nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
Bob Hicks
bob at seeinghandassociation.com
Fri Jan 15 15:17:18 UTC 2010
Hi Julie and list. I am sort of a rookie as this group goes and I am only
using my second dog guide, but I almost never used a dog guide at all
because of a well meaning and totally uninformed Lion back in 1979. After
being home from training at Leader, I was in Morgantown WV the first week of
the fall semester to pick up an Opticon(ancient history uh!) and the streets
were very crowded. We went to lunch at a burger place downtown and after
lunch we were returning to our vehicle. Although people were polite, it was
very difficult working Nicholas because people were shoulder to shoulder and
3 or 4 abreast going both directions. Leader Dogs had told us that the
ultimate decision to work our guides under stressful situations was entirely
up to us. Nicholas was fine, but I was stressed out. In the Burger place,
a lady had introduced herself as a Lion from a chapter near my home town
and I never gave it another thought. Again, on the way back to the van, I
decided to heal Nicholas and go sited guide for a short distance.
About a month later, I get a visit from a friend who was a member of the
local Lions club. He told me that he wasn't here to upset me, but he knew
me and he knew I would be upset. It was reported to Leader Dogs that I had
received a dog who couldn't handle crowds. Nothing was further from the
truth. Nicholas never made a mistake of any consequence and worked
perfectly for 10 years, but I never forgot that the Lions and who knew who
else was watching us work and felt that they knew enough to report that I or
Nicholas did not know what we were doing. I never, never forgot this
slight. This factored in my decision not to get a replacement dog for
years. After the discussion with my friend, I briefly considered sending
Nicholas, whom I had already come to love, back to Leader. I called Leader
and they told me not to worry about it.
I have been very fortunate to have exceptional dogs from Leader and Pilot.I
received exceptional support and treatment at both facilities. I know and
read about each of us experiencing different treatment at the various
facilities, but I have received exceptional treatment and dogs at both of my
stops along this journey.
It is neat to read about the different schools and I wonder where I will go
when Amos retires. Thanks for listening to my story. take care
Best regards,
Bob Hicks
Access Technology Specialist
Seeing Hand Association, Inc.
304-232-4810
<bob at seeinghandassociation.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
> Yes, that does answer my question. I appreciate your sharing. It was
> very informative. Most people go to one program and stick with it for
> successor dogs. It's really helpful to hear from someone who has first
> hand experience with different programs.
>
> Thanks!
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>
>
>> Hi Julie,
>> I had gone to another school - GDF - before settling on The Seeing Eye.
>> I always wanted to go to TSE from the start but at that time they didn't
>> accept students with some usable vision. Then they changed that policy
>> sometime in the 1980s. I was never comfortable with a contract which GDF
>> had. That's why I didn't return there when I was finally able to go to
>> TSE. Then my first dog from Seeing Eye wasn't really suited for the
>> work - something TSE watches out for now. then I moved to California.
>>
>> When my TSE dog had to have an early retirement, I applied to the three
>> CA schools. GDB turned me down because they listened to untrue things
>> about me and my dog handling. At that time TSE was using some
>> corrections no longer used by them and corrections that the CA schools
>> didn't like - and some local guide dog users didn't like either. I was
>> accepted by GDA and GDD. GDA offered me a class sooner than GDD so I went
>> there.
>>
>> I have to admit that in 1990, I had NEVER flown cross country alone -
>> just little short flights from Boston to either Long Island or New
>> Jersey. I was afraid to do it alone then.
>>
>> After my GDA dog retired, I gave her to a friend who moved to another
>> state. My dog was for her husband as she had a GDA dog herself. then
>> they moved back to San Diego. Meanwhile, she gave up her GDA dog and
>> kept the harness. She used the harness on my retired dog so she could
>> take the dog with her on the bus. The "busy-bodies" who sucessfully got
>> me denied at GDB, came to life again and told GDA and GDB that I gave
>> this woman my retired guide so she could then use the dog. And further,
>> I gave her a harness to do this! I gave the dog to her husband and I sent
>> my harness back to the school by mail after I retired the dog!
>>
>> The Director Of Training of GDA, upon hearing this story, came to SD
>> unannounced to our blind center where we were having craft class. He
>> took both me and the woman outside to chat about this. He saw the GDA
>> harness she was using - it was the new style one and not the same kind as
>> I had been issued. After our chat, he seemeed to be satisfied that I
>> said I had nothing to do with the woman's actions, took the harness back
>> and left.
>>
>> A year later, after I healed from an injury that forced me to send my Eye
>> Dog Fooundation dog back, I re-applied to GDA and GDB as I was not happy
>> with the training at EDF. I was turned down by both citing as the reason
>> that I had given this woman my retired dog for her to use and that I gave
>> her a harness to do this! They said I VIOLATED the contract! I had no
>> control over what someone else did with my retired dog!! So, as I found,
>> you are bound by the contract even if you no longer have the dog! You're
>> supposed to euthanise the dog in order to ensure that the contract won't
>> be violated???!! This is why I will NEVER go to a school with a contract!
>>
>> Shortley after this fiasco, the woman decided that she could no longer
>> keep the dog and the dog was returned to me. I gave her to my
>> sister-in-law and that's where the dog lived out the rest of her life.
>>
>> It was an understatement to say I was VERY upset by this turn of events.
>> This all did come back to "bite me". I was so upset at the people
>> involved that I kept it secret that I decided to reapply at TSE. I
>> decided that I had no reason to be afraid to fly cross country alone! I
>> decided to go back to SEeing Eye, was accepted and flew on my own without
>> any problem and I have since flown back and forth many times fear-free!
>> I also had to keep it a secret that I was even reapplying for a new dog
>> at Seeing Eye. The cat was let out of the bag when I left for class and
>> everyone wondered where I was! I swore my sister to secrecy and she
>> could tell people where I was after I left! Further, I told TSE about
>> what happened and I left them a list of names of the troublemakers and
>> this list still resides in my TSE records! When they tried to cause me
>> more trouble, TSE blew them off!
>>
>> The interesting thing about all this is that the people at both GDA and
>> GDB KNOW what kind of handler I am as I see them at events from time to
>> time and they've seen me handle my dogs! I have no respect for
>> organizations that pay more attention to malicious rumorsmongering by a
>> couple of disgruntled people who were really jealous of me for whatever.
>> The ringleader of this has moved away and this nonsense has stopped.
>> this same small group has tried their crap on another local dog user as
>> well but failed to do any harm to her. My question is: Why were these
>> people more credible than I was? I never got that answer, either.
>>
>> Interestingly enough, I will still see these trainers from GDA and GDB at
>> guide dog or blindness conventionns and they are very cordial towards me!
>> (grin!) I am cordial with them However, I never received an apology!
>> That's OK, I will NEVER apply to these schools again and I will stay with
>> TSE as long as I can still use guide dogs! They have ALWAYS shown
>> respect and integrity towards me. There is respect both ways and I didn't
>> have this with the California schools.
>>
>> This isn't meant to bash any school. This is my own experiences with
>> them. These two schools do put out good dogs and people are very happy
>> with them - I have no problem with that.
>>
>> Hope this answers your question, Julie! (grin!)
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>
>>
>>> Thanks! I read their survey info from GDUI. According to that they
>>> place about 50 dogs per year and the class limit is 10 students. They
>>> also state that they offer their services in the entire U.S. and Canada.
>>>
>>> If you don't mind, what made you decide to get your successor dogs from
>>> TSE?
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 6:33 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>
>>>
>>>> Julie,
>>>> I've only seen GDA dogs here in California although, I'm sure, they
>>>> have graduates in other states. Yes, they are a small school. they
>>>> train about 6-12 students on class. I don't know how many classes they
>>>> have per year.They have a small campus in Sylmar, CA. They do their
>>>> city training in Los Angeles - including their subway! LA had no
>>>> subway when I went to GDA.
>>>>
>>>> The school is smaller than GDB and larger than GDD that's Guide Dogs of
>>>> the Desert. GDA - Guide Dogs of America - started in the late 1940s by
>>>> an older man with the Machinists Union. He was a worker in that union
>>>> and he became visually impaired. At that time, most schools refused to
>>>> take older people for their first guide dog. So the man and his union
>>>> started their own school! they are small and cozy with lots of
>>>> individualized attention from the instructors. Alot of their training
>>>> is in the city of San Fernando, and in Sylmar.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what changes have occurred there sinse I was there in
>>>> 1990. I did see one of their graduates today at a craft class but
>>>> didn't really talk to her - I assist a deaf volunteer in her helping
>>>> people who are learning to knit.
>>>>
>>>> HTH!
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:15 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks! It's a small school and rarely comes up on the list. I admit
>>>>> I know nothing about GDA. So if the people who have GDA guides would
>>>>> like to share on list I would love to read about your experiences too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:08 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>> I was a graduate of GDA in 1990. I know two people here in San Diego
>>>>>> who have GDA dogs and they are happy with their dogs and the school.
>>>>>> I know there are some listers who have GDA dogs - hey guys, talk to
>>>>>> Jessica! (grin!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:58 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jessica,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Holy cow! You've had some insane dogs. I agree biting is way over
>>>>>>> the line in what is acceptable. Boxers are by nature very high
>>>>>>> energy, so I doubt it was just that particular one. But biting, I
>>>>>>> absolutely could not deal with.
>>>>>>> I hope GDA is just what you are looking for. I don't know of anyone
>>>>>>> who has gotten a dog from there. Could you ask them to put you in
>>>>>>> touch with a graduate? That seems reasonable to me.
>>>>>>> Hopefully there is someone on the list who will be able to provide
>>>>>>> more info.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:02 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some of the questions, of course, are relevant only for
>>>>>>>> information. For
>>>>>>>> instance, I know that my school does most if not all of what you
>>>>>>>> are asking
>>>>>>>> and does have set commands. But as for dog/cat distractions,they
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> something that I am continually having to work on with the dog. If
>>>>>>>> they get
>>>>>>>> serious, I may need to have them send someone out to help me. There
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> always the potential for a bad match. What policy does Guide Dogs
>>>>>>>> of America
>>>>>>>> have on ownership? Is there a fee? Where do they get their support?
>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>> are more questions that could be of importance. Do they have their
>>>>>>>> own stock
>>>>>>>> or do they get the dogs in other places? Not sure why GDB would be
>>>>>>>> too big.
>>>>>>>> They have two campuses, but the class size would be similar, or are
>>>>>>>> you just
>>>>>>>> concerned about paper pushing and the like? Just curious. I think
>>>>>>>> it is good
>>>>>>>> to ask questions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cindy Lou
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Jessica Pitzer" <rolosgirl at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:37 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, I received my first and second dogs from pilot dogs. I choose
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> to return because when I went their the first time I had a dog that
>>>>>>>> continuously bit my hands and arms and was not controllable, then I
>>>>>>>> got a chocolate lab who developed a skin disorder, and chased our
>>>>>>>> cats
>>>>>>>> and in working when she saw a cat or dog she'd lunge, and then stop
>>>>>>>> working altogether. Then I got a boxer who had horrible behavior,
>>>>>>>> biting, and way way to much energy so have decided a better school
>>>>>>>> with a better reputation would be good for me. GDA tells me they
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> kennel cats test the dogs with cats, do intelligence disobedience,
>>>>>>>> more in the matching process, etc. all of which Pilot didn't do.
>>>>>>>> I just wanted to know the answers to those questins for general
>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>> and to get others experiences. I also wanted a school that wasn't
>>>>>>>> across country so being near seattle, that gave me GDB, GDDI and
>>>>>>>> GDA,
>>>>>>>> GDB is jsut to big for my liking, GDDI had a 2 year waiting list
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> when I called GDA, Andi was so nice, and helpful it just seemed the
>>>>>>>> perfect place.
>>>>>>>> Jessica
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/10/10, Cindy Ray <cindyray at qwest.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Is this your first dog? If not, where have you gotten dogs before?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cindy Lou
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Jessica Pitzer" <rolosgirl at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:24 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> I'm wondering if there is any GDA graduates amongst us.
>>>>>>>>> If so, I have questions.
>>>>>>>>> You can either answer here or send me a private email, or add me
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> msn at rolosgirl at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> 1. Did you keep a blog of your experiences.
>>>>>>>>> 2. Does your dog have any issues with cats?
>>>>>>>>> 3. Can you describe your harness, AKA how it releases the belly
>>>>>>>>> strap,
>>>>>>>>> any reflectors, how the handle connects, etc.?
>>>>>>>>> 4. What did you like and dislike about the school?
>>>>>>>>> 5. How long did you wait to get in?
>>>>>>>>> 6. Did you feel your dog was a good match?
>>>>>>>>> 7. Any recommendations for going there?
>>>>>>>>> 8. Can you give me an overview of the facilities, common areas,
>>>>>>>>> rooms,
>>>>>>>>> etc.?
>>>>>>>>> 9. Can you describe to me what happens from when you get there
>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>>> you get the dog?
>>>>>>>>> 10. Can you describe dog day to me and how they introduce the dog
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> you, what happens after that up until your first work out?
>>>>>>>>> 11. Are there any hallmarks of the program, AKA visits to specific
>>>>>>>>> places that always happen?
>>>>>>>>> 12. Was your dog well trained in all types of environments?
>>>>>>>>> 13. How does your dog do with food distractions?
>>>>>>>>> 14. How about cat/dog distractions?
>>>>>>>>> 15. What all commands are used.
>>>>>>>>> 16. How is your dog at home? Do you use a crate, tie down, both?
>>>>>>>>> If I think of more questions I'll post them but these are the ones
>>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>> have right now.
>>>>>>>>> I'm doing the application process now, hoping for an April or July
>>>>>>>>> class. I've asked for a female yellow lab, we'll see!
>>>>>>>>> Jessica
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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