[nagdu] public perceptions was Guide Dogs of America
Julie J
julielj at windstream.net
Sat Jan 16 01:58:39 UTC 2010
It just goes to show you that the public hasn't a clue about blind people or
guide dogs. One of the blessings of owner training is that you will never
get a phone call about the fact someone didn't like the way you handled your
dog in some situation or another. I have no clue why people can't say
things directly to the blind handler, but for some reason it seems to be the
trend to just call the school and tattle.
I probably really confuse people. LOL sometimes I take Monty, sometimes I
use my cane and New Year's Eve I just winged it at our friend's home.
Oh well, I live in a small gossipy town. It's probably keeping them all
entertained! Just doin' my part, you know!
Julie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Hicks" <bob at seeinghandassociation.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
> Hi Julie and list. I am sort of a rookie as this group goes and I am only
> using my second dog guide, but I almost never used a dog guide at all
> because of a well meaning and totally uninformed Lion back in 1979. After
> being home from training at Leader, I was in Morgantown WV the first week
> of the fall semester to pick up an Opticon(ancient history uh!) and the
> streets were very crowded. We went to lunch at a burger place downtown
> and after lunch we were returning to our vehicle. Although people were
> polite, it was very difficult working Nicholas because people were
> shoulder to shoulder and 3 or 4 abreast going both directions. Leader
> Dogs had told us that the ultimate decision to work our guides under
> stressful situations was entirely up to us. Nicholas was fine, but I was
> stressed out. In the Burger place, a lady had introduced herself as a
> Lion from a chapter near my home town and I never gave it another thought.
> Again, on the way back to the van, I decided to heal Nicholas and go sited
> guide for a short distance.
>
> About a month later, I get a visit from a friend who was a member of the
> local Lions club. He told me that he wasn't here to upset me, but he knew
> me and he knew I would be upset. It was reported to Leader Dogs that I
> had received a dog who couldn't handle crowds. Nothing was further from
> the truth. Nicholas never made a mistake of any consequence and worked
> perfectly for 10 years, but I never forgot that the Lions and who knew who
> else was watching us work and felt that they knew enough to report that I
> or Nicholas did not know what we were doing. I never, never forgot this
> slight. This factored in my decision not to get a replacement dog for
> years. After the discussion with my friend, I briefly considered sending
> Nicholas, whom I had already come to love, back to Leader. I called
> Leader and they told me not to worry about it.
>
> I have been very fortunate to have exceptional dogs from Leader and
> Pilot.I received exceptional support and treatment at both facilities. I
> know and read about each of us experiencing different treatment at the
> various facilities, but I have received exceptional treatment and dogs at
> both of my stops along this journey.
>
> It is neat to read about the different schools and I wonder where I will
> go when Amos retires. Thanks for listening to my story. take care
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bob Hicks
> Access Technology Specialist
> Seeing Hand Association, Inc.
> 304-232-4810
> <bob at seeinghandassociation.com>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>
>
>> Yes, that does answer my question. I appreciate your sharing. It was
>> very informative. Most people go to one program and stick with it for
>> successor dogs. It's really helpful to hear from someone who has first
>> hand experience with different programs.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Julie
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>
>>
>>> Hi Julie,
>>> I had gone to another school - GDF - before settling on The Seeing Eye.
>>> I always wanted to go to TSE from the start but at that time they didn't
>>> accept students with some usable vision. Then they changed that policy
>>> sometime in the 1980s. I was never comfortable with a contract which
>>> GDF had. That's why I didn't return there when I was finally able to go
>>> to TSE. Then my first dog from Seeing Eye wasn't really suited for the
>>> work - something TSE watches out for now. then I moved to California.
>>>
>>> When my TSE dog had to have an early retirement, I applied to the three
>>> CA schools. GDB turned me down because they listened to untrue things
>>> about me and my dog handling. At that time TSE was using some
>>> corrections no longer used by them and corrections that the CA schools
>>> didn't like - and some local guide dog users didn't like either. I was
>>> accepted by GDA and GDD. GDA offered me a class sooner than GDD so I
>>> went there.
>>>
>>> I have to admit that in 1990, I had NEVER flown cross country alone -
>>> just little short flights from Boston to either Long Island or New
>>> Jersey. I was afraid to do it alone then.
>>>
>>> After my GDA dog retired, I gave her to a friend who moved to another
>>> state. My dog was for her husband as she had a GDA dog herself. then
>>> they moved back to San Diego. Meanwhile, she gave up her GDA dog and
>>> kept the harness. She used the harness on my retired dog so she could
>>> take the dog with her on the bus. The "busy-bodies" who sucessfully got
>>> me denied at GDB, came to life again and told GDA and GDB that I gave
>>> this woman my retired guide so she could then use the dog. And further,
>>> I gave her a harness to do this! I gave the dog to her husband and I
>>> sent my harness back to the school by mail after I retired the dog!
>>>
>>> The Director Of Training of GDA, upon hearing this story, came to SD
>>> unannounced to our blind center where we were having craft class. He
>>> took both me and the woman outside to chat about this. He saw the GDA
>>> harness she was using - it was the new style one and not the same kind
>>> as I had been issued. After our chat, he seemeed to be satisfied that I
>>> said I had nothing to do with the woman's actions, took the harness back
>>> and left.
>>>
>>> A year later, after I healed from an injury that forced me to send my
>>> Eye Dog Fooundation dog back, I re-applied to GDA and GDB as I was not
>>> happy with the training at EDF. I was turned down by both citing as the
>>> reason that I had given this woman my retired dog for her to use and
>>> that I gave her a harness to do this! They said I VIOLATED the
>>> contract! I had no control over what someone else did with my retired
>>> dog!! So, as I found, you are bound by the contract even if you no
>>> longer have the dog! You're supposed to euthanise the dog in order to
>>> ensure that the contract won't be violated???!! This is why I will NEVER
>>> go to a school with a contract!
>>>
>>> Shortley after this fiasco, the woman decided that she could no longer
>>> keep the dog and the dog was returned to me. I gave her to my
>>> sister-in-law and that's where the dog lived out the rest of her life.
>>>
>>> It was an understatement to say I was VERY upset by this turn of events.
>>> This all did come back to "bite me". I was so upset at the people
>>> involved that I kept it secret that I decided to reapply at TSE. I
>>> decided that I had no reason to be afraid to fly cross country alone! I
>>> decided to go back to SEeing Eye, was accepted and flew on my own
>>> without any problem and I have since flown back and forth many times
>>> fear-free! I also had to keep it a secret that I was even reapplying for
>>> a new dog at Seeing Eye. The cat was let out of the bag when I left for
>>> class and everyone wondered where I was! I swore my sister to secrecy
>>> and she could tell people where I was after I left! Further, I told TSE
>>> about what happened and I left them a list of names of the troublemakers
>>> and this list still resides in my TSE records! When they tried to cause
>>> me more trouble, TSE blew them off!
>>>
>>> The interesting thing about all this is that the people at both GDA and
>>> GDB KNOW what kind of handler I am as I see them at events from time to
>>> time and they've seen me handle my dogs! I have no respect for
>>> organizations that pay more attention to malicious rumorsmongering by a
>>> couple of disgruntled people who were really jealous of me for whatever.
>>> The ringleader of this has moved away and this nonsense has stopped.
>>> this same small group has tried their crap on another local dog user as
>>> well but failed to do any harm to her. My question is: Why were these
>>> people more credible than I was? I never got that answer, either.
>>>
>>> Interestingly enough, I will still see these trainers from GDA and GDB
>>> at guide dog or blindness conventionns and they are very cordial towards
>>> me! (grin!) I am cordial with them However, I never received an
>>> apology! That's OK, I will NEVER apply to these schools again and I will
>>> stay with TSE as long as I can still use guide dogs! They have ALWAYS
>>> shown respect and integrity towards me. There is respect both ways and I
>>> didn't have this with the California schools.
>>>
>>> This isn't meant to bash any school. This is my own experiences with
>>> them. These two schools do put out good dogs and people are very happy
>>> with them - I have no problem with that.
>>>
>>> Hope this answers your question, Julie! (grin!)
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:48 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks! I read their survey info from GDUI. According to that they
>>>> place about 50 dogs per year and the class limit is 10 students. They
>>>> also state that they offer their services in the entire U.S. and
>>>> Canada.
>>>>
>>>> If you don't mind, what made you decide to get your successor dogs from
>>>> TSE?
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 6:33 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Julie,
>>>>> I've only seen GDA dogs here in California although, I'm sure, they
>>>>> have graduates in other states. Yes, they are a small school. they
>>>>> train about 6-12 students on class. I don't know how many classes
>>>>> they have per year.They have a small campus in Sylmar, CA. They do
>>>>> their city training in Los Angeles - including their subway! LA had
>>>>> no subway when I went to GDA.
>>>>>
>>>>> The school is smaller than GDB and larger than GDD that's Guide Dogs
>>>>> of the Desert. GDA - Guide Dogs of America - started in the late 1940s
>>>>> by an older man with the Machinists Union. He was a worker in that
>>>>> union and he became visually impaired. At that time, most schools
>>>>> refused to take older people for their first guide dog. So the man
>>>>> and his union started their own school! they are small and cozy with
>>>>> lots of individualized attention from the instructors. Alot of their
>>>>> training is in the city of San Fernando, and in Sylmar.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know what changes have occurred there sinse I was there in
>>>>> 1990. I did see one of their graduates today at a craft class but
>>>>> didn't really talk to her - I assist a deaf volunteer in her helping
>>>>> people who are learning to knit.
>>>>>
>>>>> HTH!
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:15 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks! It's a small school and rarely comes up on the list. I
>>>>>> admit I know nothing about GDA. So if the people who have GDA guides
>>>>>> would like to share on list I would love to read about your
>>>>>> experiences too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:08 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>>> I was a graduate of GDA in 1990. I know two people here in San
>>>>>>> Diego who have GDA dogs and they are happy with their dogs and the
>>>>>>> school. I know there are some listers who have GDA dogs - hey guys,
>>>>>>> talk to Jessica! (grin!)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:58 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jessica,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Holy cow! You've had some insane dogs. I agree biting is way over
>>>>>>>> the line in what is acceptable. Boxers are by nature very high
>>>>>>>> energy, so I doubt it was just that particular one. But biting, I
>>>>>>>> absolutely could not deal with.
>>>>>>>> I hope GDA is just what you are looking for. I don't know of
>>>>>>>> anyone who has gotten a dog from there. Could you ask them to put
>>>>>>>> you in touch with a graduate? That seems reasonable to me.
>>>>>>>> Hopefully there is someone on the list who will be able to provide
>>>>>>>> more info.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:02 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some of the questions, of course, are relevant only for
>>>>>>>>> information. For
>>>>>>>>> instance, I know that my school does most if not all of what you
>>>>>>>>> are asking
>>>>>>>>> and does have set commands. But as for dog/cat distractions,they
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> something that I am continually having to work on with the dog. If
>>>>>>>>> they get
>>>>>>>>> serious, I may need to have them send someone out to help me.
>>>>>>>>> There is
>>>>>>>>> always the potential for a bad match. What policy does Guide Dogs
>>>>>>>>> of America
>>>>>>>>> have on ownership? Is there a fee? Where do they get their
>>>>>>>>> support? Those
>>>>>>>>> are more questions that could be of importance. Do they have their
>>>>>>>>> own stock
>>>>>>>>> or do they get the dogs in other places? Not sure why GDB would be
>>>>>>>>> too big.
>>>>>>>>> They have two campuses, but the class size would be similar, or
>>>>>>>>> are you just
>>>>>>>>> concerned about paper pushing and the like? Just curious. I think
>>>>>>>>> it is good
>>>>>>>>> to ask questions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cindy Lou
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Jessica Pitzer" <rolosgirl at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:37 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, I received my first and second dogs from pilot dogs. I choose
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> to return because when I went their the first time I had a dog
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> continuously bit my hands and arms and was not controllable, then
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> got a chocolate lab who developed a skin disorder, and chased our
>>>>>>>>> cats
>>>>>>>>> and in working when she saw a cat or dog she'd lunge, and then
>>>>>>>>> stop
>>>>>>>>> working altogether. Then I got a boxer who had horrible behavior,
>>>>>>>>> biting, and way way to much energy so have decided a better school
>>>>>>>>> with a better reputation would be good for me. GDA tells me they
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> kennel cats test the dogs with cats, do intelligence disobedience,
>>>>>>>>> more in the matching process, etc. all of which Pilot didn't do.
>>>>>>>>> I just wanted to know the answers to those questins for general
>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>> and to get others experiences. I also wanted a school that wasn't
>>>>>>>>> across country so being near seattle, that gave me GDB, GDDI and
>>>>>>>>> GDA,
>>>>>>>>> GDB is jsut to big for my liking, GDDI had a 2 year waiting list
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> when I called GDA, Andi was so nice, and helpful it just seemed
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> perfect place.
>>>>>>>>> Jessica
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/10/10, Cindy Ray <cindyray at qwest.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Is this your first dog? If not, where have you gotten dogs
>>>>>>>>>> before?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cindy Lou
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jessica Pitzer" <rolosgirl at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:24 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>> I'm wondering if there is any GDA graduates amongst us.
>>>>>>>>>> If so, I have questions.
>>>>>>>>>> You can either answer here or send me a private email, or add me
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> msn at rolosgirl at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Did you keep a blog of your experiences.
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Does your dog have any issues with cats?
>>>>>>>>>> 3. Can you describe your harness, AKA how it releases the belly
>>>>>>>>>> strap,
>>>>>>>>>> any reflectors, how the handle connects, etc.?
>>>>>>>>>> 4. What did you like and dislike about the school?
>>>>>>>>>> 5. How long did you wait to get in?
>>>>>>>>>> 6. Did you feel your dog was a good match?
>>>>>>>>>> 7. Any recommendations for going there?
>>>>>>>>>> 8. Can you give me an overview of the facilities, common areas,
>>>>>>>>>> rooms,
>>>>>>>>>> etc.?
>>>>>>>>>> 9. Can you describe to me what happens from when you get there
>>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>>>> you get the dog?
>>>>>>>>>> 10. Can you describe dog day to me and how they introduce the dog
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> you, what happens after that up until your first work out?
>>>>>>>>>> 11. Are there any hallmarks of the program, AKA visits to
>>>>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>>>>> places that always happen?
>>>>>>>>>> 12. Was your dog well trained in all types of environments?
>>>>>>>>>> 13. How does your dog do with food distractions?
>>>>>>>>>> 14. How about cat/dog distractions?
>>>>>>>>>> 15. What all commands are used.
>>>>>>>>>> 16. How is your dog at home? Do you use a crate, tie down, both?
>>>>>>>>>> If I think of more questions I'll post them but these are the
>>>>>>>>>> ones i
>>>>>>>>>> have right now.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm doing the application process now, hoping for an April or
>>>>>>>>>> July
>>>>>>>>>> class. I've asked for a female yellow lab, we'll see!
>>>>>>>>>> Jessica
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>
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>>>>
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