[nagdu] Guide dog or guard dog?

[Tamara Smith-Kinney]

True!  Like it or not, there are simply times when it's necessary to let
people know you've got your eye on them and that you're not about to take
any guff they might be thinking of giving you!  /smile/

I like your responses to the "does your dog bite?" question.  I've only
gotten it a time or two so far, mostly in the form of "she won't bite me,
will she?"  The first time, the "proper" response flashed through my head,
but that was not at all what came out of my mouth.  I can't remember the
exact words I said, just that they did not convey the guide dog mystique.
/smile/  It was something along those same lines, though.  She's a dog, and
she does have teeth.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Linda Gwizdak
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:26 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog or guard dog?

In this day and age, I don't think it is unreasonable to have a guide dog 
who might give "the evil eye" at someone who may be contemplating something 
untoward towards us.

One day back in 1996, I was at a busstop with my German shepherd guide. 
These two school-age girls were fighting about something and the fight was 
escalating to the point where I was beginning to think about looking for 
another busstop to wait at.  The whole time, my dog was staring at them with

ears up and alert. All of a sudden, one of the fighters noticed the dog and 
said,"Oh we better stop this - we're upsetting that dog!"  Then the fight 
stopped! (grin!)  I was happy about that turn of events and then my bus came

and I boarded it.

Guess the dog was giving them The Look! Also, lots of times people will ask 
if my dog bites.  I just say either, "You don't want to find that out." or 
"He's got teeth, doesn't he?" I had to say that to some unruley kids in 
Walmart today when a friend and I walked through the doors.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:22 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog or guard dog?


> You go, Gucci!  /grin/  You, too!
>
> Back when I was looking into guide dogs, and around the time I first got 
> my
> poodle, I would get into all sorts of trouble commenting on the "German
> Shepherd factor."  Human predators, I reasoned, would be less likely to
> chance taking one on -- or its human -- than they would with other breeds.
> A cute little poodle, however, might not be such a deterrent!  Although 
> I've
> heard tell she has "the look" when she wants to.  She just doesn't have 
> the
> reputation to back it up.  /smile/
>
> Some people were really shocked that I would even mention the protection
> factor of having a nice big dog along when walking around in the big 
> world.
> Guides are *not* aggressive!  They have been bred from birth and for
> generations to be pacificists.  The implication seemed to be that if a 
> guide
> dog would even *think* about looking funny at a shady character, then it
> wasn't fit to be a guide dog because that's aggressive!
>
> Ha!  I'm with you.  If Mitzi wants to look at someone sternly, or if she
> shows some other sign of discomfort when someone approaches us, I pay
> attention!  This almost never happens, of course, although when she was
> still just a pup, she did growl once when someone walked into the corner
> store where I was waiting in line.  I was shocked, and I reprimanded her 
> and
> made sure she knew that was not okay.  Several other people in line 
> assured
> me that the person who had walked in made them want to growl, too!  She's
> never done that again, but she will press against my leg if she has a
> concern.  A time or two she has just casually positioned herself slightly 
> in
> front of me at an angle, between me and whomever.  So I take note and put 
> on
> my extra confident 'tude just in case.  /smile/
>
> A friend and I were joking around once about the problem of drunks at bus
> stops.  She decided that for that little problem, an Irish wolfhound would
> be great to have as a guide.  /lol/  One would have to hang the handle 
> from
> the under side of the dog, but perhaps the drunks would be less 
> persistent?
> /grin/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Wayne Merritt
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:08 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog or guard dog?
>
> It's interesting the number of people recently that have asked me
> questions about my German Shepherd guide and if she would protect me
> if someone tried to hurt me. A couple of weeks ago I went downtown to
> get a replacement bus card at the transit store. You never know what
> kind of characters hang about those places, so I was a little hesitant
> when someone asked me, "Does that dog bite?" Out of habit I almost
> said that she didn't, but then I paused, and said, "Well, maybe. Why?"
> The response came back that she had apparently given a nearby man a
> weird look and he claimed that she growled at him, even showing her
> teeth. I felt no such thing through the leash, but played it safe and
> left room for doubt by saying, "Oh, ok." And I left it at that. The
> man then said, "Well, I wasn't going to hurt her. I'm a nice guy." I
> shrugged and nodded while smiling, but wondered what really happened
> in those few seconds. Sometimes, it's better to let the dog's natural
> tendancies to protect their owner come out rather than question or try
> to explain them away. This was my first real experience of this type
> of thing, but I think I handled it pretty well. People have asked if
> she bites before or if she would protect me, but nothing like this
> situation at the transit store. Interesting.
>
> Wayne, and the ever alert Gucci "designer dog"
>
> On 1/14/10, Tamara Smith-Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Linda and Dan,
>>
>> Because poodles can be very guardy, I've always worked to keep that
> instinct
>> quiet and to redirect it in Mitzi.  But one night a couple of months ago,
> I
>> walked out the back door onto the porch in our fenced back yard...  And
> she
>> lunged forward, nearly over the corner post, barking in a way I had never
>> heard from her before!  She was totally fierce!  Then I heard the
> scrambling
>> of footsteps just beneath her head, from the yard beside the porch!
>> Intruders!  And, boy, did they hightail it away and over the back fence!
>>
>> I was pretty impressed, really.  Although I prefer she doesn't get put
> into
>> a position to do that again.  Still!  My sweet, sweet angel is one scary
> dog
>> when she wants to be!  /smile/
>>
>> I'm just glad Daisy was in bed with her dad at the time.  She would have
>> more than scared the punks, and we probably would have had to make some
>> unpleasant choices.  Still, we never have to wonder if there's someone at
>> the front door between the 2 of them.  /smile/  I did have Mitzi trained
> not
>> to have bark fests over knocks at the door, but we haven't gotten Daisy
>> sorted out yet, so they both go nuts together.  Sigh. At least I have no
>> trouble finding Daisy hound to get a grip on her before I open the door.
>> That dog is loud!  Also, you still never know if she's going to tear into
>> someone or simply knock them over trying to love on them.  /smile/  She's
>> getting better, with the help of neighbors who come to the door and a
>> generous application of training treats!
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Linda Gwizdak
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:47 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] question about ownership and retirement
>>
>> Hi Daniel,
>> Sounds like Scout is a field Lab with all his energy. Scout sounds like a
>> dog Seeing Eye would drop from the program! Field Labs are especially 
>> bred
>> with hyper energy so they can be used for hunting.  Hunters need a high
>> energy dog that can continuously jump into cold water retrieving 
>> waterfowl
>> all day long!  This trait isn't very good in a guide dog.  The schools
> will
>> blend the field Lab with a conformation Lab which is very calm. With the
>> blend, you get a dog that has stamina to work but who can also chill when
>> you need it to.
>>
>> If you retire Scoout and go elsewhere for a new dog, Leader may not allow
>> you to keep Scout.  He is young enough to retrain with another person.
> But,
>>
>> if they deem him unsuitable for guide work, they MAY let you keep him as 
>> a
>> pet.  This can be a problem with a school that has a contract and who
>> retains ownership of the dog.
>>
>> A couple of years ago, a friend of mine died.  She had a dog from a
>> California school that was around seven years old at the time of my
> friend's
>>
>> death.  Because she didn't have in writing who she wanted her dog to go
> to,
>> the school wouldn't allow us, her friends, to give the dog to someone 
>> here
>> in San Diego who my friend had mentioned about retiring her dog to.
> Instead,
>>
>> the school took the dog back and said that the intended person had to
> apply
>> for the dog just like anyone else who wanted to adopt a retired guide or
>> career-change dog.  So, I don't know whatever happened to the dog.
>>
>> If I was you, I'd try to find out your school's policy for early
> retirement
>> before doing anything.  When you apply to a new school, they will check
> with
>>
>> the old school about you and if there are any problems concerning your
> guide
>>
>> dog use and dog care.
>>
>> That's great that Scout is a good watchdog! Landon would lick an intruder
> to
>>
>> death! LOL!  He doesn't bark at the door - something all my dogs from
> Seeing
>>
>> Eye won't do!  I think they have their puppy raisers discourage door
> barking
>>
>> from the very beginning.  Not a good thing for me as I do have a hearing
>> problem and aren't always aware that someone's at my door - especially if
>> I'm at my computer in my bedroom!
>>
>> Hope all works out for you.  BTW, one of my friends here has a Seeing Eye
>> dog named Scout and they work with the Navy!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dan Sweeney" <daniel.sweeney1 at comcast.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 2:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] question about ownership and retirement
>>
>>
>>> Hello Tracy,
>>> Yes, it is the same Daniel with the wild and crazy Leader Dog, Scout. I
>>> never did return the little shit, much to my surprise. I had a trainer
> out
>>> last January, 09. He admitted to me that I was not ready to leave the
>>> school
>>> with Scout when I did. He told me that he even told my instructor this,
>>> but
>>> it was ignored. But that is all water under the bridge now. He did show
> me
>>
>>> a
>>> few ways to get control of my little ever-ready bunny dog, and it has
>>> helped
>>> quite a bit. The dog is still not the guide dog I imagined, nor I had
>>> observed when I had some bit of sight. He still walks at a turbo pace,
>>> with
>>> his head to the ground most of the time. As long as I  have tried to
>>> "steady" him, it has been over a year and a half now, he will only 
>>> comply
>>> when he wants to. Other than that he is a great dog. He is a perfect
> guard
>>> dog around the house, and has foiled 2 intruders. He is totally
> protective
>>> of me, and will not leave my side when at home.
>>> He will belong to me in July, and I was considering attending a 
>>> different
>>> school, to get a real guide dog - now that I know what to expect from a
>>> guide dog. I thought of keeping Scout as our family dog, which he has
>>> become
>>> such a part of. He is absolutely wild when he is off leash, in the
>>> backyard
>>> he runs laps continually, he never tires. He has more energy than I 
>>> could
>>> ever imagine a dog to have. The comments from everyone I know is "THAT 
>>> is
>>> a
>>> guide dog, you are kidding!"
>>> So, that is the why the questions on retirement, ownership and the like.
>>> Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks.
>>> Daniel and Scout
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 6:31 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] question about ownership and retirement
>>>
>>> Hi Daniel.
>>> Are you the Daniel with the wild Leader dog?  How's it going?
>>>
>>> I have kept 2 retired dogs.  The first, Amba,  had to stop working
> because
>>> she got cancer.  She lived only a few months after the diagnosis.  I
> could
>>> have waited to get a new dog until she was gone, but I much prefer to
> have
>>> a dog in New York City, and we kept hoping the treatment she got would
>>> work, so I did not wait.  It did interfere somewhat with the bonding
>>> process with the new dog, primarily because I was spending a lot of time
>>> and energy caring for my sick dog, and spending time with her while I
>>> could.  But after her passing, the bond between me and my new dog got
>>> stronger, and everything was fine.  And, even before, we could work
>>> together fine.
>>>
>>> I also kept Echo (who was the new dog I was just talking about).  She
>>> retired at age 11, and is still going strong 3 years later.  I had no
>>> problem bonding with my newer dog, Ben.  My husband took over some of 
>>> the
>>> care of Echo, taking her for walks mostly, and she and Ben don't mind
> each
>>> other.  They play sometimes, and steal toys from each other, but mostly
>>> they ignore each other.  Sometimes Echo still comes to the door when I
>>> pick up the harness, but really she seems happy to take life easy and 
>>> let
>>> the young dude do the work.
>>>
>>> I think it really helps to have another person around when one has 2
> dogs.
>>> HTH.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello group,
>>>>
>>>> I am back on the list again because I missed all of everyone's helpful
>>>> comments and suggestions in the past. I have a question. What is the
>>>> earliest someone has retired their guide  which they received from a
>>>> school?
>>>> Upon retirement, did you keep that dog while returning to either to the
>>>> same
>>>> school or a different school to obtain another guide? And finally, was
>>>> their
>>>> any complications at home due to the fact that the new guide was
>>>> replacing
>>>> the previous guide when it came to developing a solid bond?
>>>>
>>>> Whew! I know it is a lot to ponder, but I figured since the 
>>>> conversation
>>>> seemed to be around ownership issues, at least partly, I figured it
> would
>>>> be
>>>> a good time to ask.
>>>>
>>>> Daniel.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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