[nagdu] being reported to your school and thoughts on posative training methods

Julie McGinnity kaybaycar at gmail.com
Sat Jul 31 16:17:56 UTC 2010


Hi.  I find this whole topic very interesting. I have never been
reported to my school.  I remember that several times my first year or
so as a guide dog user a few people asked me about the leash
corrections.  I had mydog in high school my first year I was with her,
so it took me a while to stand up for my self and tell them that I was
not abusing her.  One of my teachers went as far as asking me not to
do leash corrections anymore because it looked bad.  It's not that I
have to use leash corrections a lot, but in Brie's early years food
was a great problem.  She was terrible when it came to gumb on the
floor or anything in the cafiteria.  She has a sensative stomach, so I
figured it was better to correct her and rework going past the food
and praising her for avoiding the food, than for her never to learn
and to get sick all the time.  I hope that made any sense.  Oh, and it
worked.  She got so much better as the year went on.  One day in high
school I even dropped a plate of French fries as I was trying to take
her through a door.  I think it is still one of my finest moments as a
guide dog user.  She didn't touch it.  She didn't even move.
Apparently, she just gave me a really funny look, but she was so happy
when I moved away from the food and praised her for like 5 minutes for
being so good.

She is very good now in my college cafiteria, and I make sure and
praise her wen I or someone else drops food and she doesn't even touch
it.  As for food rewards, I give them very rarely.  Brie has a very
sensative stomach, and I worry about her getting sick a lot.  Using
her dogfood works, and I do that sometimes.  I really wish my school
had begun the clicker training when I was in school.  I think they did
like the month after I graduated.  :)

I'd like to hear about what others do in place of food rewards.  She
works very well with just receiving praise, but I am very interested
to know what other people do as well.

As for the schools owning the dogs, I personally have a very good
relationship with the people at my school, so I don't feel like they
are going to take  my dog away any time , and I understand their
policy of delayed ownership.  I don't know exactly what they call it,
but it means you can apply for ownership a year or so after getting
the dog.  They do put alot of time and resources into the dog, and
some people do not end up using their dogs as guides.  I don't believe
that it is right for a school to not allow you to have ownership of
your dog.  I can just understand a little bit where they are coming
from.  Just myopinion on the matter
Julie and Brie

On 7/31/10, Meghan Whalen <mewhalen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I entirely agree with you.  I am so glad that I have immediate ownership of
> my dog upon graduation.  I'm also glad that the school she is from will
> contact local athorities to investigate if they think there is abuse.
>
> Thankfully, I haven't yet been reported, but I'm sure I'll only be lucky for
> so long.
>
> I must say though, that it is very very refreshing to see schools
> introducing clicker training in their programs, and I hope they continue to
> further adopt the practices around clicker.  When used correctly, it is such
> a wonderful tule.  It also looks much better to the public to see fewer
> leash corrections.  The simple truth is that you have to look hard to find
> training classes for pet dogs at this point that will encourage leash
> corrections.  All of the classes I have found myself in with my own pet dogs
> have been centered on posative reinforcement.  It is high time schools start
> treating dogs the way the rest of the world finds it ethical to treat dogs.
>
> I have been instructed to use clicker to shape a solid recall with Dayton,
> to teach him to get into his training vest, to help teach him food refusal,
> and I must say, the things he has learned with the aid of clicker, he is
> more excited to do.  He will more than willingly lay down or sit when I tell
> him to, but he loves to come, to heal and to put his vest on, because these
> are things which have involved clicker.  He adores praise, so he's just as
> happy to come to me for a nice scratch behind the ears and under the chin.
>
> Anyways, I've gotten way off topic here.  I am very interested in the
> opinions of others on food rewards, clicker training and the rest of it.  I
> know a lot of people don't like the use of food rewards in guide work, and I
> know old habits are hard to break, but there has to be a way to at least
> lessen the need for correction.  Maybe more intensive training needs to be
> taken on by puppy raisers with food refusal, dog distractions and the rest
> of it.  Dayton is already learning food refusal, and I think that such an
> early and entensive training process will benifit him in the long run.  He
> is learning that ignoring the food is not simply something that should be
> done or he will receive a correction, he is learning that ignoring the food
> is a posative thing.  He is ignoring the food because he has posative
> associations with ignoring it, not because he doesn't want to be slammed
> with a correction.
>
> Okay, I'm really done rambling now.
>
> Meghan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 8:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] being reported to your school
>
>
>> As an owner trainer I am always fascinated by the phenomena of being
>> reported or reporting to the schools various perceived indiscretions of
>> guide dog use and abuse.  Certainly I agree that there are horrible cases
>> of abuse out there, but what I hear about 99% of the time are cases that
>> involve lack of facts, lack of knowledge of guide dogs, revenge or just
>> plain medaling.
>>
>> I honestly do not understand the whole concept of reports to the school.
>> Why is that people will report to the school but rarely to local police or
>>
>> animal enforcement agencies?  Why is it that people will rarely just go
>> directly to the blind guide dog handler and ask what's going on?
>>
>> I truly believe that if we want change to occur at the guide dog programs
>> it has to begin with us.  I think calling the programs and making reports,
>>
>> even legitimate ones, perpetuates the programs custodial attitudes.  Why
>> not instead work with local law enforcement to address the situation?  Why
>>
>> not instead directly confront the person about their behavior with their
>> guide dog?  Instead of offering judgment why not try some attempt at
>> understanding?
>>
>> If I am missing something obvious here, please tell me.  I really would
>> like to understand this.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
 Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
Eyes for the Blind

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16




More information about the NAGDU mailing list