[nagdu] harness signs

Tue Mar 9 20:04:04 UTC 2010

Exactly. 
I don't much care/think about the next blind person. I do know that when
someone and it can be someone I know and love pets my dog and I don't
want it, it just makes me feel icky. That person is in my space,d oing
something I don't need or want them to do during a time I didn't agree
to.  It's the act not necessarily the person, though sometimes the two
are related. 
Janette does have a point though, John Q Public does have the attitude
of "You've seen 'em one, you've seen 'em all". Not that that's my
problem, it just is. 
And, I wonder if people's attitude of the "agreeable little blind
person" have more to do with that that blind person in that moment did
what the other person wanted, making the blind person "nice" or
"pleasant". After all, we all view someone as "nice" if we get what we
want out of them. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jeanette Beal
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:01 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs

HI Tracy -
I'm not asking you to agree with me, rather I'm sharing how I feel. And
noting that this is all extremely personal. You may not be thinking
about
the next blind person that comes along, but our actions as individuals
unfortunately impact one another as people *without* disabilities take
our
actions as universal actions. That's what I meant when I said we're
interconnected.

Also while it's completely valid and common for individuals to not feel
harassed or intimidated by experiences, I would stress that that doesn't
take away from any other individual's feelings of intimidation,
harassment,
fear or assault. I think too often we all say we *aren't* effected by
something and end up unknowingly silencing a group of or individual
people
who are effected. Thus I'm speaking out as someone who feels violated
when
either my body or my dog's body is touched without permission.

It has nothing to do with throwing out negative energy into the world -
ignoring how things make us feel does not decrease their impact on us. I
found that by suppressing my feelings and telling myself that it didn't
matter, etc. I was actually causing myself more harm. Instead I work to
own
my feelings, acknowledge when I need space and support and work towards
being kind and gentle with myself when I need it. This means that if
someone
hurts me (whether they intended to or not) I need to step away and take
care
of myself rather than trudge on and pretend like nothing happened.

And sure, what's a trigger point for you may not be a trigger point for
someone else and vice versa; we all have to take care of ourselves and
be
gentle with ourselves in ways that work for ourselves.

But I hope that we do not end up silencing one another as a result of
taking
care of ourselves.

Jeanette

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
wrote:

> Hi Jeanette.
> While I see your point, I don't feel the same.  I'm a woman, in a big
> city, taking public transit.  Grab me and you'll probably get slapped.
> Pet my dog, and probably you won't.  I used to get all wound up about
it,
> but then I decided life is too short to let jerks steal my energy like
> that.  And the city is full of jerks.  So I decided to keep the dog
under
> control, tell those who ask if they can pet what I feel is right at
the
> time, and mostly ignore the drive-by petters.  I'm much calmer than I
used
> to be.
>
> I don't buy that I always have to be thinking about the next blind guy
to
> come along.  I have to think about what's right for me and my dog now.
JQ
> Public may want to group us all together, but I'm an individual and
I'm
> going to do what works for me, so long as it's not hurting someone
else,
> same as any other American.  I can't help that someone is going to
think
> I'm the same as his great-aunt Tilly who could hardly walk because she
was
> 90, and happened to be blind.  Or that someone is going to think all
blind
> people are rude because I don't stop for 5 minutes to chat when I'm
trying
> to make my bus.  Or thinks that all us blind folks are supersweet
> church-going saints.  Life is short; I'm being me, and I'm handling my
dog
> as I think best.
> Not meaning to dis you in any way.  I understand your point of view,
and
> I've just said mine.
> Tracy
>
> > I'm wondering how much of the interaction between public and dog is
> > gender-based to the handler? As a woman, I know that I'm interacted
with
> > on
> > a slightly different level than men - called 'little lady' by
> > many-a-older-guy on public transit, etc. I know there was a study
done
> > recently (um, 20/20 special so not really a study) with a blind man
& a
> > blind woman trying to buy pastries in a shop and the woman was
actually
> > stood up for/defended more readily by an incredulous public than the
man.
> > Is
> > this because women are inherently viewed as inferior and in need of
> > protection? Probably.
> > So when a female handler walks around with her dog is it  much
easier to
> > disregard her and interact with her dog? Perhaps. I've had men spit
in my
> > face because I told them to leave my dog alone. Granted he spit in
my
> face
> > after he started petting my dog and I said no and he said F-off and
I
> said
> > oh really? And stepped between dog & dude and dude then pushed at me
so I
> > slapped him in the face and he spit on me and then....ran away. But
the
> > main
> > point was I said no and he said "so?" and continued his bad
behavior.
> > I have a hard time with this subject. It's so rooted in my need for
> safety
> > in public as a woman - using public transit and getting groped by a
dude
> > behind or next to me feels as dirty and disgusting as unauthorized
> petting
> > of my dog by a stranger. So how do I reconcile my need for safety
and
> > autonomy with the day-to-day hassles all handlers have in public?
> > I do so by not allowing people to pet my dog. By demanding that I be
> asked
> > first. By expecting my answer to be respected - if I say no it means
no.
> > This goes for my body as much as my dog's.  And unfortunately the
waiting
> > public takes away that I'm a rude, withholding human. But my safety
is
> > more
> > important than public image.
> > Unfortunately we aren't in a vacuum and all blind people speak for
all
> > blind
> > people in front of AB folks. So when someone lets the public pet
their
> dog
> > in harness they send a message that I will to. And when I say no and
am
> > assumed rude I send a message that all blind people are rude.
> > It's a crappy inter-connected all-disabled-folk-are-the-same world.
> > Jeanette
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Albert J Rizzi
> > <albert at myblindspot.org>wrote:
> >
> >> now there is the honest one in the group. I must confess that I too
> >> enjoy
> >> it
> >> when people take notice of my handsome lad. I do stop to let him
take in
> >> the
> >> praise at times, though I always take his harness off. Now before
you
> >> all
> >> go
> >> mad about that, it is a conscious decision I make and am willing to
make
> >> for
> >> my dog and all the good work he does, I feel that if time allotted
when
> >> I
> >> take the harness off it reinforces the work thing and out of work
thing
> >> for
> >> the dog. It also embarrasses  the petting offender and they always
> >> insist I
> >> not go to any great lengths, which always allows for a honest and
open I
> >> really should bet t my meeting.
> >>
> >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> >> CEO/Founder
> >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> >> New York, New York  10004
> >> www.myblindspot.org
> >> PH: 917-553-0347
> >> Fax: 212-858-5759
> >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who
> >> is
> >> doing it."
> >>
> >>
> >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> >> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:39 PM
> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
> >>
> >> Hmm...  Maybe someone should make a project out of finding a
mutt-ugly
> >> scurvy cur, slappying a guide dog harness on it and heading out
into
> >> public
> >> to see what happens?  /grin/  I've thought of designing a special
poodle
> >> cut
> >> to uglify Mitzi...  I could have the groomer do her all lopsided
and
> >> patch
> >> and stuff, then put odd dye patches on her here and there...
> >>
> >> Whaddaya think?  Should I go for it?  /grin/
> >>
> >> Or maybe someone could invent a spray, like that stuff that is
supposed
> >> to
> >> keep pets away from certain areas.  In fact, isn't it called "Pet
Away?"
> >> or
> >> stomething?  Maybe if we sprayed are dogs with anti-human
pheromones we
> >> could go about our business in peace? /lol/
> >>
> >> Okay, so my dirty little secret is that I've sort of gotten to
enjoy the
> >> attention my poodle gets, now that we've learned to deal and move
on.
> >> Unless she's in hussy mode, in which case, I just have to deal
until I
> >> can
> >> make a graceful exit or haul out the jaws of life to separate her
from
> >> the
> >> bestest friend ever she just made.  /smile/  I figure I can
embarrass
> >> myself
> >> enough that I may as well let the dog find ways to embarrass me so
long
> >> as
> >> it makes everybody happy...  Sigh.  Maybe it has something to do
with
> >> living
> >> in Portland?  Part of me remembers the place as the oversized
redneck
> >> town
> >> of my youth; it's fun talking to long-time resident cabbies who
remember
> >> it
> >> the same way.  But in the past (I will not admit how many) years,
it's
> >> grown
> >> and changed along and now it's sort of...  Funky? Funny? Kind of
getting
> >> to
> >> be cosmopolitan but with a super progressive political bent and a
strong
> >> flavor of small-town friendliness.  It can make going out and about
a
> >> lot
> >> of
> >> fun, in a funy, weird way.
> >>
> >> So long as one remembers to take into account the growing number of
> >> homeless
> >> people with dogs of uncertain temperament downtown...  That
population
> >> has
> >> grown over the past few years, and while the scary dogs we've
passed
> >> have
> >> been kept under control by their ragged and dirty humans, it seems
to
> >> take
> >> a
> >> lot of effort from the human to keep the dog from going for my
sweet
> >> precious.  Yikes!  Still, with the housing situation here, as in so
many
> >> places, it's to be expected.  Sigh.  Otherwise, though, Portland is
a
> >> pretty
> >> cool place.
> >>
> >> You just don't stand a prayer of going more than five steps without
> >> someone
> >> saying something about your dog.  /grin/
> >>
> >> Tami Smith-Kinney
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Albert J Rizzi
> >> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:05 PM
> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
> >>
> >> What if we all got the ugliest dogs imaginable? Do you think that
would
> >> cut
> >> down on the petting distractions?
> >>
> >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> >> CEO/Founder
> >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> >> New York, New York  10004
> >> www.myblindspot.org
> >> PH: 917-553-0347
> >> Fax: 212-858-5759
> >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who
> >> is
> >> doing it."
> >>
> >>
> >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Marsha Drenth
> >> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:39 PM
> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
> >>
> >> Now here is where I have seen a improvement. My husband purchased
me a
> >> sign
> >> for my pup for the harness for Christmas, and she has been wearing
it
> >> since.
> >> Granted not all that long. But I have had only one person try to
pet my
> >> pup
> >> since. I don't think this person could read, and most likely had
other
> >> disabilities. Before, I had so many people try to pet her. I was
trying
> >> and
> >> just dreaded going places because of the number of people who
wanted to
> >> pet
> >> her. So in my situation, the sign has definetly worked wonders!
> >>
> >> JMO
> >> Marsha
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Julie J
> >> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:43 PM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs was guide dogs
> >>
> >> I don't think the signs make any difference anyway.
> >>
> >> I have a sign on Monty's harness that says "Please don't pet me I'm
> >> working".  For folks who have difficulty with words there is also a
> >> picture
> >> of a hand reaching to pet a dog with a giant red slash through it.
> >> You'd
> >> think people would get the hint, but they don't. I have noticed
> >> absolutely
> >> no difference in the amount of petafiles since I started with the
sign.
> >>
> >> Just today I had some guy reach out to pet Monty just as we're
getting
> >> ready
> >>
> >> to cross the street of all things.  He explained that he had been
> >> petting
> >> the dog in training on the college campus earlier.  As if that made
it
> >> okay
> >> or something.  Torks me.  But Monty got my revenge, he backed up
and
> >> gave
> >> the death ray eyeball look.  LOL  Go Monty!
> >>
> >> Julie
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Meghan" <meghan at n-republic.net>
> >> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users"
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:15 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dogs
> >>
> >>
> >> > No, they don't give you a sign for the harness, but you get cards
that
> >> you
> >>
> >> > can hand out.
> >> >
> >> > They make it clear that they discourage petting, but they advise
you
> >> on
> >> > how to approach it if you are going to allow it, too.
> >> >
> >> > Hope that helps,
> >> > Meghan
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Jennifer L Finley" <jenniferfinley at embarqmail.com>
> >> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users"
> >> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:28 PM
> >> > Subject: [nagdu] guide dogs
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Does the seeing eye have the please don't pet me signs?  Do they
use
> >> >> anything to let the public know to not pet the dog?
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeanette Beal
> > MS.Ed Assistive Technology
> > Independent Consultant
> > Boston, MA 02115
> > bealjk at gmail.com
> > http://twitter.com/bealjk
> > http://bealjk.tumblr.com/
> >
> > "Talent is an invention like phlogiston after the fact of fire" -
Marge
> > Piercy
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-- 
Jeanette Beal
MS.Ed Assistive Technology
Independent Consultant
Boston, MA 02115
bealjk at gmail.com
http://twitter.com/bealjk
http://bealjk.tumblr.com/

"Talent is an invention like phlogiston after the fact of fire" - Marge
Piercy
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