[nagdu] harness signs

Wed Mar 10 00:51:50 UTC 2010

Tracy,

I'm sort of halfway in between.  I've been going around as a blind woman for
long enough that I'm used to a lot of the, er, crud one gets, whether as a
guide dog user or a cane user.

I do try to bear in mind that, whether I like it or not, I somehow represent
people's view of blind people, women, guide dog users, etc., etc.,
everywhere.  I'm currently in the phase of adjustment where that knowledge
just makes me mad, to be perfectly honest.  /evil grin/  It's not that I
don't care, per se.  It's just that I don't, you know, care.  /lol/

I do believe that gender differences play a big role in how we're treated as
blind women, just as they do in how we're treated as women period.  It's
changed a lot since I was a sweet young thing, but...  It's still definitely
there.  Our gender also affects how innocent bystanders view our response to
any give situation.  If I'm a big, strong, husky fella and somebody comes up
to harrass me, I can be all verbally obnoxious, then deck them, and it's all
good.  Okay, that may be extreme, but...

As a woman, even if I had the physique to deck the above-referenced bozo, I
am a total, er, you know what, if I don't smile sweetly and take it.

I think it's good to be aware of that reality, but I will admit that with
the new level of obnoxiousness from total strangers I can't even see these
past few years, that awareness gives me lots of stomach acid!

I'm pretty much to the place where, if civil discourse or overdone sugar
sweetness doesn't do the trick, I will go for effing rude.  Wishing I was a
big, strong, husky fella who could just deck the person who's in my way this
time.  /grin/

Ah, well.  We've come a long, as blind people, as women or men, and as guide
dog users.  So I guess we each have to learn how to keep moving ourselves
and each other along in our own individual away.

Still!  There are a few people I would love to go back and retroactively
deck if I ever wake up one morning with Slayer Powers or some such.  /grin/
That's just the kinda girl I am, I guess.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tracy Carcione
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:41 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs

Hi Jeanette.
While I see your point, I don't feel the same.  I'm a woman, in a big
city, taking public transit.  Grab me and you'll probably get slapped. 
Pet my dog, and probably you won't.  I used to get all wound up about it,
but then I decided life is too short to let jerks steal my energy like
that.  And the city is full of jerks.  So I decided to keep the dog under
control, tell those who ask if they can pet what I feel is right at the
time, and mostly ignore the drive-by petters.  I'm much calmer than I used
to be.

I don't buy that I always have to be thinking about the next blind guy to
come along.  I have to think about what's right for me and my dog now.  JQ
Public may want to group us all together, but I'm an individual and I'm
going to do what works for me, so long as it's not hurting someone else,
same as any other American.  I can't help that someone is going to think
I'm the same as his great-aunt Tilly who could hardly walk because she was
90, and happened to be blind.  Or that someone is going to think all blind
people are rude because I don't stop for 5 minutes to chat when I'm trying
to make my bus.  Or thinks that all us blind folks are supersweet
church-going saints.  Life is short; I'm being me, and I'm handling my dog
as I think best.
Not meaning to dis you in any way.  I understand your point of view, and
I've just said mine.
Tracy

> I'm wondering how much of the interaction between public and dog is
> gender-based to the handler? As a woman, I know that I'm interacted with
> on
> a slightly different level than men - called 'little lady' by
> many-a-older-guy on public transit, etc. I know there was a study done
> recently (um, 20/20 special so not really a study) with a blind man & a
> blind woman trying to buy pastries in a shop and the woman was actually
> stood up for/defended more readily by an incredulous public than the man.
> Is
> this because women are inherently viewed as inferior and in need of
> protection? Probably.
> So when a female handler walks around with her dog is it  much easier to
> disregard her and interact with her dog? Perhaps. I've had men spit in my
> face because I told them to leave my dog alone. Granted he spit in my face
> after he started petting my dog and I said no and he said F-off and I said
> oh really? And stepped between dog & dude and dude then pushed at me so I
> slapped him in the face and he spit on me and then....ran away. But the
> main
> point was I said no and he said "so?" and continued his bad behavior.
> I have a hard time with this subject. It's so rooted in my need for safety
> in public as a woman - using public transit and getting groped by a dude
> behind or next to me feels as dirty and disgusting as unauthorized petting
> of my dog by a stranger. So how do I reconcile my need for safety and
> autonomy with the day-to-day hassles all handlers have in public?
> I do so by not allowing people to pet my dog. By demanding that I be asked
> first. By expecting my answer to be respected - if I say no it means no.
> This goes for my body as much as my dog's.  And unfortunately the waiting
> public takes away that I'm a rude, withholding human. But my safety is
> more
> important than public image.
> Unfortunately we aren't in a vacuum and all blind people speak for all
> blind
> people in front of AB folks. So when someone lets the public pet their dog
> in harness they send a message that I will to. And when I say no and am
> assumed rude I send a message that all blind people are rude.
> It's a crappy inter-connected all-disabled-folk-are-the-same world.
> Jeanette
>
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Albert J Rizzi
> <albert at myblindspot.org>wrote:
>
>> now there is the honest one in the group. I must confess that I too
>> enjoy
>> it
>> when people take notice of my handsome lad. I do stop to let him take in
>> the
>> praise at times, though I always take his harness off. Now before you
>> all
>> go
>> mad about that, it is a conscious decision I make and am willing to make
>> for
>> my dog and all the good work he does, I feel that if time allotted when
>> I
>> take the harness off it reinforces the work thing and out of work thing
>> for
>> the dog. It also embarrasses  the petting offender and they always
>> insist I
>> not go to any great lengths, which always allows for a honest and open I
>> really should bet t my meeting.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:39 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>
>> Hmm...  Maybe someone should make a project out of finding a mutt-ugly
>> scurvy cur, slappying a guide dog harness on it and heading out into
>> public
>> to see what happens?  /grin/  I've thought of designing a special poodle
>> cut
>> to uglify Mitzi...  I could have the groomer do her all lopsided and
>> patch
>> and stuff, then put odd dye patches on her here and there...
>>
>> Whaddaya think?  Should I go for it?  /grin/
>>
>> Or maybe someone could invent a spray, like that stuff that is supposed
>> to
>> keep pets away from certain areas.  In fact, isn't it called "Pet Away?"
>> or
>> stomething?  Maybe if we sprayed are dogs with anti-human pheromones we
>> could go about our business in peace? /lol/
>>
>> Okay, so my dirty little secret is that I've sort of gotten to enjoy the
>> attention my poodle gets, now that we've learned to deal and move on.
>> Unless she's in hussy mode, in which case, I just have to deal until I
>> can
>> make a graceful exit or haul out the jaws of life to separate her from
>> the
>> bestest friend ever she just made.  /smile/  I figure I can embarrass
>> myself
>> enough that I may as well let the dog find ways to embarrass me so long
>> as
>> it makes everybody happy...  Sigh.  Maybe it has something to do with
>> living
>> in Portland?  Part of me remembers the place as the oversized redneck
>> town
>> of my youth; it's fun talking to long-time resident cabbies who remember
>> it
>> the same way.  But in the past (I will not admit how many) years, it's
>> grown
>> and changed along and now it's sort of...  Funky? Funny? Kind of getting
>> to
>> be cosmopolitan but with a super progressive political bent and a strong
>> flavor of small-town friendliness.  It can make going out and about a
>> lot
>> of
>> fun, in a funy, weird way.
>>
>> So long as one remembers to take into account the growing number of
>> homeless
>> people with dogs of uncertain temperament downtown...  That population
>> has
>> grown over the past few years, and while the scary dogs we've passed
>> have
>> been kept under control by their ragged and dirty humans, it seems to
>> take
>> a
>> lot of effort from the human to keep the dog from going for my sweet
>> precious.  Yikes!  Still, with the housing situation here, as in so many
>> places, it's to be expected.  Sigh.  Otherwise, though, Portland is a
>> pretty
>> cool place.
>>
>> You just don't stand a prayer of going more than five steps without
>> someone
>> saying something about your dog.  /grin/
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Albert J Rizzi
>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:05 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>
>> What if we all got the ugliest dogs imaginable? Do you think that would
>> cut
>> down on the petting distractions?
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Marsha Drenth
>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:39 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>
>> Now here is where I have seen a improvement. My husband purchased me a
>> sign
>> for my pup for the harness for Christmas, and she has been wearing it
>> since.
>> Granted not all that long. But I have had only one person try to pet my
>> pup
>> since. I don't think this person could read, and most likely had other
>> disabilities. Before, I had so many people try to pet her. I was trying
>> and
>> just dreaded going places because of the number of people who wanted to
>> pet
>> her. So in my situation, the sign has definetly worked wonders!
>>
>> JMO
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:43 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs was guide dogs
>>
>> I don't think the signs make any difference anyway.
>>
>> I have a sign on Monty's harness that says "Please don't pet me I'm
>> working".  For folks who have difficulty with words there is also a
>> picture
>> of a hand reaching to pet a dog with a giant red slash through it.
>> You'd
>> think people would get the hint, but they don't. I have noticed
>> absolutely
>> no difference in the amount of petafiles since I started with the sign.
>>
>> Just today I had some guy reach out to pet Monty just as we're getting
>> ready
>>
>> to cross the street of all things.  He explained that he had been
>> petting
>> the dog in training on the college campus earlier.  As if that made it
>> okay
>> or something.  Torks me.  But Monty got my revenge, he backed up and
>> gave
>> the death ray eyeball look.  LOL  Go Monty!
>>
>> Julie
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Meghan" <meghan at n-republic.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dogs
>>
>>
>> > No, they don't give you a sign for the harness, but you get cards that
>> you
>>
>> > can hand out.
>> >
>> > They make it clear that they discourage petting, but they advise you
>> on
>> > how to approach it if you are going to allow it, too.
>> >
>> > Hope that helps,
>> > Meghan
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Jennifer L Finley" <jenniferfinley at embarqmail.com>
>> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:28 PM
>> > Subject: [nagdu] guide dogs
>> >
>> >
>> >> Does the seeing eye have the please don't pet me signs?  Do they use
>> >> anything to let the public know to not pet the dog?
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nagdu mailing list
>> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nagdu:
>> >>
>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/meghan%40n-republic.n
>>
et<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/meghan%40n-republi
c.n%0Aet>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> >
>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream.
>>
net<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstr
eam.%0Anet>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail
>>
.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40
gmail%0A.com>
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 4926 (20100308) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 4926 (20100308) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
>>
org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblinds
pot.%0Aorg>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
>>
.net<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40co
mcast%0A.net>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
>>
org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblinds
pot.%0Aorg>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/bealjk%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jeanette Beal
> MS.Ed Assistive Technology
> Independent Consultant
> Boston, MA 02115
> bealjk at gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/bealjk
> http://bealjk.tumblr.com/
>
> "Talent is an invention like phlogiston after the fact of fire" - Marge
> Piercy
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
.net