[nagdu] So and so lets me pet their dog.

Fri Mar 12 17:32:26 UTC 2010

You're right about how leash corrections -- or anything we do with our dogs
-- can be misinterpreted by the public.  Who will then leap to interfere!
Yet leash corrections -- some quite sharp, depending on the dog -- are what
guide dog users are often taught because that is how the dogs are trained.
Which is okay, since it clearly works, and so long as the collar is properly
fitted and wide enough not to cause injury and so forth, it doesn't seem to
hurt the dog as much as it would hurt our puny little necks...  Or so it
seems.

Okay, so when I'm around someone who uses sharp leash corrections -- guide
dog user or otherwise -- I wince because I get sympathy pains in my puny
little neck.  Also, I've trained using different methods, so it seems
backward to me.  Frankly, I don't like having to expend that much energy.
/smile/

I have had people express utter shock that I was abusing my dog by gently
calling her a 'scurvy cur."  Oh, no!  The wounds to her psyche will never
fade.  /lol/  Even a firm pull on the Halti when she's being rebellious
brings commentary.  I don't use a sharp tug; I just resist enough to stop
her straying nose and begin to bring it back; she used to do the same to me
at the same time when she was in a mood.  The scurvy cur!  /grin/  A couple
of people have expressed horror that I would inflict such a torture device
as the Halti on the sweet, innocent creature.  Well, Mitzi agrees with them,
but mostly because it cramps her style.

Anyway, the guide dog trainers around here are praised for using sharp
corrections, as are the puppy raisers.  I think GDB has changed some of
their methods so that leash corrections aren't emphasized as they were.  But
when they do it, it's a good thing.  When a blind guide dog handler does it,
that's dreadful!  Sigh.

Hang in there.  It sounds like you're building up a good repertoire of
techniques that work without causing all the shock and horror.  I don't have
a school to be reported to, thank heavens, although I guess I've been
reported to DD a couple of times.  He thinks its funny when he tells me
about it.  Unless it has something to do with crossing the street.
Apparently, as is obvious to many while I remain naively oblivious, Mitzi is
out to kill me!  Sigh.  So then I get to explain it all again to Mr. Worry
Wort and spend a few days not able to stick my head out the door to check
the weather without his grabbing the car keys.  /lol/

People are funny.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Michelle
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 4:51 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] So and so lets me pet their dog.

I've had the same problem of people petting my guide dog for two years--the
same amount of time I've had him by my side. It only occured to me a few
months ago to change his name in public because a friend who has a guide dog
told me that people do this to avoid guide dog distractability. So now I
call him Mr T. I chuckle to myself every time people then say "Hi T!" Poor
Troy doesn't respond and acts a little confused as if to say, "What the heck
are you talking about!" Well, that's better than having him get distracted.

Another thing I do which helps me now, is instead of correcting the people,
I correct Troy. When people talk to him or pat him, I quietly say no in his
ear, and give a gentle tug to the side of his neck, subtly pulling the leash
so his neck can't turn to his desired direction e.g, to the person on his
lefthand side, or pulling the leash backwards in a subtle manner of the
person is in front. This is so whoever it is doesn't notice that I've
actually checked him. If they do notice, I just tell them that it's
customary to remind the dog not to greet people and it's part of my training
to not allow interaction from others. That works most of the time! At the
times people don't take my hint, I then come straight out with it and ask
will they please not pet or talk to the dog as this is distracting. Other
than that I just pull Troy into line and then go on my way because it's
unlikely I'll see the person again.

I used to give hard leash corrections but got too many complaints against
me, two of them which were truthful which I have rectified, and the others
which were just lies, and when I gave my side of the story it wansn't bought
very well. The two times the complaints were justified I was a bit too 
excessive with how hard I was pulling the leash, but at other times when 
people called Guide Dogs against me, I was using fairly hard leash 
corrections appropriately, how I was trained. Otherwise the corrections were

more mild. So now I use mild corrections period, and if he does need a 
harder correction for appropriate reasons, I hold the lead vertical, then 
pull it up subtly so it has the same effect without actually yanking it to 
create the same correction if you know what I mean. I was instructed to use 
a gentle leader all the time so people wouldn't misread how I handle my dog,

but if I'm not using it, I just do the same things with his collar as I do 
with the gentle leader to show Troy that he can respond to soft and slightly

firm tugs as opposed to hard corrections if he doesn't toe the line straight

away (in training, my instructor gave firm tugs for misbehaving, hard tugs 
if he didn't toe the line, so now I'm doing soft tugs for misbehaving, 
slightly firm tugs if he doesn't toe the line). I'm amaze that there weren't

any complaints about how my instructor handled my guide dog, yet people can 
complain against me just because I'm a woman who is only doing everything 
taught in training, besides the two complaints which I rectified. The other 
ones are hopefully sorted out for what they are: crap.

Troy doesn't like his gentle leader: he has shown that consistently from day

one since I first got him, when another instructor said that the gentle 
leader would mean I don't have to actually tug the lead to correct him. So 
now I just use it when I have to, and give slight subtle tugs with the lead 
so Troy learns to respond to those and then people won't notice that I'm 
checking my dog's behaviour. If I'm around people who I know don't like any 
form of discipline, I take the leash and hold it a little taught to the 
side, so Troy gets the message without me having to tug it. If he lounges, I

stand still and let him check himself while gently moving my arm backwards 
so he pulls back as he checks, because then the nosy parkers think I'm doing

nothing at all haha!

Sorry for the long rant, I really needed to jot down some of my ideas here 
because then others who read this will have plenty of info to apply to their

own dog if they wish. Plus I figure this would be something of interest to 
discuss over the digital "round table" lol.

Michelle
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wayne Merritt" <wcmerritt at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] So and so lets me pet their dog.

> No, I don't pet other people's guides unless they give me permission.
> It seems like before you can stop your own guide from flurting, that
> you'd need to stop flurting with those guides yourself. Then perhaps
> your dog would notice and start to understand, though reinforcing the
> no flurting policy with the dog always helsp this process. I've got a
> dog that flurts as well and I just have to stay on top of what she's
> doing and pay attention to the way the leash feels. I can usually tell
> by the tension in the leash if she's getting petted by someone and by
> the way her head is tilted, and then I can deal with the person doing
> the petting. Most people where I work know not to pet her when she's
> in harness, and I've got no problems with correcting those that pet
> her anyway. I've established the rules with those I work with, such as
> not saying her name when she's working, and pretty much got nearly
> perfect compliance from everyone. I've even got students that will
> tell me that they won't say the dog's name, even when the dog is
> flurting with them out of harness, and when it's technically okay to
> say her name. It also helps that there are those with other more or
> less well behaved guides where I work as well. AS has been mentioned
> several times on this list recently though, each person is different
> and may allow or not allow their dog to do or not do certain things.
> Here's my own observation,and some may disagree with it, but those who
> let their dogs run wild, flurt excessively, and so forth, shouldn't be
> surprised if the dog starts not minding as much and misbehaving.
>
> One way I've dealt with those that want to know her name is by using a
> different word that sounds nothing like her name. There's nothing that
> says I have to tell people her name if I'm not comfortable in doing
> so. The dog's real name is Gucci, but her "working" name, or the word
> that's used when she's working, is the word secret. I've found this
> works super, except in the rare case when she sees someone that she
> adores and they call her secret, and she still responds. I can usually
> keep control over her and prevent her from really misbehaving. And
> then I've got someone I work with who knows Secret's real name, but
> just likes calling her Secret, whether she's in or out of harness.
> This method works great, especially in those cases when you see
> someone on the bus or the street that you know you'll never see again,
> who wants to know the dog's name.
>
> Jmt,
> Wayne
>
> On 3/8/10, Deanna Lewis <deannakay618 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>> I have a really hard time getting Pascal to ignore people. What are the
>> best
>> strategies for working on that? I do daily obedience with him, but he is
>> always wanting to be pet by someone. I wish I could get him to ignore
>> reaching hands so that they will just stop and give up. Any
>> suggestions???
>> I am also around a lot of blind people who use dogs and I will usually
>> let
>> him say hi and flirt. He has a lot of girlfriends out there! I guess I am
>> bad too, and want to know if you all do this, but do you pet your
>> friend's
>> guide dogs? Sometimes I do it without asking, just because I am so used
>> to
>> showing my own dog affection, and if dog's head pops in my lap, I have to
>> pet it. LOL Am I a horrible person?
>> PS: I have been denied a taxi ride before, in Detroit at the National
>> Convention, last year. I was with a group of people, and two of us had
>> guide
>> dogs. He said he would take the people without dogs, but did not allow
>> dogs
>> in his cab. I had only had Pascal 2 months so I did not know how to
>> handle
>> it. I could have asked the guy for the cab name and number, but he
>> probably
>> would have given me false info. Luckily, it only happened that once and
>> not
>> in my home state.
>>
>> Deanna and Pascal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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>
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