[nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick street

Wed Mar 24 13:27:03 UTC 2010

Thank you jule. I am happy to see others feeling as I had about the last
post. Drivers are supposed to be able to come to a safe and complete stop
based upon the speed they are traveling and how far ahead the object or
person is that may be in their path. Any driver knows this and since marion
speaks of physics I will let him take over on the amount of time a car
traveling at 45 miles an hour needs before starting to stop at a marked
intersection where a pedestrian may or may not be crossing or where that
pedestrian may or may not be blind. the laws are clear, human nature however
does validate marion's position but the laws as written do not.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."

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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jewel S.
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 10:00 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick street

Marion,
Can we keep it a little more civil, please? Telling someone to go step
into traffic is not very nice, and it sounds a little bit (if not a
lot) sardonic.

I don't think Albert is saying that drivers should stop on a dime, but
if I extend my cane at arm's length at a crosswalk, wait a minute, and
then step out, I think I should be reasonably able to assume that the
cars have had enough time to come to a full stop in a pedestrian-heavy
area where the speed limit is *supposed* to be 25 mph anyway. For a
street with faster speeds, I should reasonably assume that I need to
extend my cane for a longer time to give cars more time to come to a
full stop. Obviously, a car going at 50 mph is not going to be able to
stop in a minute's notice, but if I extend my cane for 3 minutes, that
should give cars enough time to notice my cane and stop. As for
highways...well, I wouldn't even consider attempting this yielding
rule on a highway...I'd soon be roadkill!

No one is saying that all cars must come to a full stop as soon as a
blind pedestrian comes to the curb. Blind pedestrians can find the
curb, and are expected to give fair warning to drivers. But once the
pedestrian is at the crossing and gives warning, the cars should all
stop and give right-of-way to the pedestrian. This is the law (at
least in NC), and should be followed, though it isn't at this time. I
hope to correct that, at least in the state's capital where I live.

Let's try to all remain civil and friendly, and if we disagree and
can't agree, like Alfred said, agree to disagree and go on with life.

~Jewel

On 3/23/10, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Albert,
>     I have an idea! Go to a busy intersection in new York City and step
out
> into traffic! Let us know how you fare in court, if you are alive to fare!
>
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
street
>
>
>> Maybe we should just agree to disagree. I am not inclined to follow your
>> line of thinking here especially when laws such as the ones on the books
>> in
>> many states require a car to stop the moment a blind person steps into
the
>> road, I have seen that even if the blind person neglected to use his cane
>> or
>> dog and should for whatever reason fly solo, this would not preclude a
>> driver from taking responsibility to stop and allow the pedestrian to
>> pass.
>> So, it seems we are going to agree to disagree here,
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:03 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
>> street
>>
>> Albert,
>>    As you stated, drivers should use "due caution" to avoid striking a
>> pedestrian. At the same time, if that pedestrian - whether blind or
>> sighted - is crossing against the light and is struck or in any other way
>> causes a traffic crash, such a pedestrian may likely be party to a law
>> suit
>> to recover damages resulting from the crash. The only thing I see in the
>> laws that I have read is that the failure of a blind person to use a cane
>> or
>>
>> guide dog cannot be used to assign a portion of the contributory
>> negligence.
>>
>> Other than that fact, the negligence of a blind person to observe other
>> laws
>>
>> pertaining to safe pedestrian travel can be used to assign a person's
>> contribution to the incident that causes the damages being recovered.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
>> street
>>
>>
>>> No, not unless and until there are audible crossing signs to allow for
>>> our
>>> choice to ignore said signage and then perhaps only then could I see a
>>> lawyer attempting to make that case. However, an elementary glance at
the
>>> laws as they pertain to pedestrians of all abilities make the drivers
>>> responsible  for taking all actions to avoid hitting a pedestrian. Now,
>>> how
>>> all that would play out in court should it go that far is only to be
>>> decided
>>> in a court room. But first and foremost, blind or not the laws as
written
>>> require that all drivers yield the right of way to a pedestrian, unless
>>> that
>>> is a specific law includes guidelines pointing out specifically that a
>>> drivers responsibility is waived if a pedestrian crosses against the
>>> light.
>>> I have yet to see any statute expressly making such a statement. If you
>>> can
>>> find one share it here could make the discussion a little more
>>> interesting.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Dan Weiner
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:09 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
>>> street
>>>
>>> , a hypothetical question, guys.
>>> Now, whether we like to admit it or now, all of us have crossed against
>>> the
>>> light at least once.
>>> There's no moving traffic, or the cars turn in strange ways or
something.
>>> So, if we cross against the light, but not deliberately in to traffic,
>>> what
>>> would be the implications of that?
>>> Would you then say that we have partial responsibility?
>>>
>>> Dan W. and the big boy, Carter
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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