[nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
Linda Gwizdak
linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Tue Mar 30 18:32:28 UTC 2010
Hi Charlene,
Good questions!
I was trained in my origional O & M under blindfold and it was extremely
beneficial. I now use this training for nightime traveling and also do this
in daylight. Instead of the looking down at my feet - like I used to do - I
can keep my head up and use my vision to look for landmarks, enjoy the
scenery. My dog does the navigating around stuff.
Here's an example of how I really learned to trust my dog: One day I was at
Balboa Park with a sighted friend. We wwere going to take a shortcut and I
was walking ahead with my dog. The area looked clear of obstacles and
looked like just dirt. I started and gave the Forward command to my dog.
She refused the command. I wondered why, put out my foot and hand like wwe
are taught at school. Nothing. Forward! Dog didn't go. My friend caught
up to me and I asked her what was there that made my dog not want to go. My
friend stared at the area and she then realized that there were all these
brown spikey things all over the brown ground. She thought thet these were
stumps of rose bushes or something.
If I didn't listen to my dog, I would have fallen on these and been hurt as
these stumps were sharp and ragged.
Besides my tunnel vision, I don't pick up on depth - steps or curbs, and I
don't pick up on low contrast - like these stumps in the dirt.
Once during traffic checks at TSE, I only saw the car when it was right in
front of me! Imagine if I had been relying on my sight? Well, I sure
wouldn't be here to write this e-mail!! My dog stopped as taught and I
stopped as taught!
If I happen to see an obstacle, I let my dog do the work - even if I hit it!
I will then correct my dog for a clearance mistake.
With partials, we differ as much as there are people with partial vision. I
have a twin also partially sighted. Her vision is different from mine. This
is a big reasoin why we are so hard to understand by both totals and fully
sighted. People understand - perhaps erroneously - about totals because they
can picture being in a pitch black closet and cal that blindness. They
can't understand seeing some things but not others like partials see. They
usually tell us that we are faking blindness. AAAGGGHHH!!! It is very
frustrating for us - getting crap from totals and fully sighted alike.
But we all need to be open minded in what each person experiences for
themselves and that there's a wide variety within the labal "blind". The
NFB likes to call all of us with vision impairment "blind" and I have no
problem with that at all - use it myself many times. I'm not afraid of the
"B" word! (grin!)
On another topic, I don't use the name "Linda" anymore even though it is
still on my e-mail. Too much of a pain to change it right now. I use the
name "Lyn" for anything not being official papers where I have to use what's
on my birth certificate.
The name "Lyn" reflects who I am now, my identity. "Linda" no longer
reflects this. So, everyone, please use Lyn for me. Thanks!
Cheers,
Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlene Ota" <caota at hawaii.rr.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
> Hey, Linda, I've been busted! (GRIN!) I know I've been guilty of
> wondering
> why someone with some vision has a dog myself. I think it kind of goes
> back
> to understanding what a person does and doesn't see again. On the other
> hand, I've also defended other people who I know and understand their
> situation who have dogs and have some vision, too. I'm curious if since
> you
> have some vision, if it's beneficial to train with your dog with a
> blindfold, much like when people do cane travel with a blindfold. Does a
> blindfold help you gain the trust of your dog so you don't depend on your
> vision as much? Somehow, I think the dogs seem to have a sense that they
> are
> or aren't needed and I've seen people try to continue to use that little
> bit
> of vision and end up confusing themselves and the dog in some situations.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Linda Gwizdak
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:34 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
>
> Hi all,
> Sometimes I see totals begrudging the partials their sight. I've seen
> this
> with partials using guide dogs. the total will say something like, "So
> and
> So has too much vision so they shouldn't be using a guide dog." I tell
> them
> that thoise of us partials who use dogs have enough of a vision ;loss to
> warrent guide dog use. I have tunnel vision and miss everything that isn't
> exactly where my eye happens to be pointed at - I miss alot that way.
> Also, I have no vision at night or in dark places. And, the guide dog
> schools won't give a dog to someone with too much sight to use the dog
> properly.
>
> There seems to be this hierarchy much like with blacks. The lightskinned
> people are somehow "better" than dark skinned people. Partials are also
> "better" than totals. I saw this among my friends who wwent to blind
> schools.
>
> I think blind people get judged on mobility skills because that's what the
> public sees most. they don't see you cook or keep house. But they see
> you
> on the street. They think a cane touching stuff means that the person
> can't
> travel well - as if the cane will magically steer one around objects!
> They
> think we are lost when we are listening to the envirnment to gain our
> bearings.
>
> Also, we get judged by the actions of a blind person. Well, so and so lets
> me pet their dog! Oh, so and so can recognise my voice after hearing it
> once. Or that so and so can do that - why can't you! That sort of thing.
>
> As a person who has been "legally blind" all my life I've seen alot. My
> vision has deteriorated over the years and I've adapted to that. But you
> recent comers to blindness, you come to it after living many years as a
> sighted person without any stigma. You are right toi take offense to the
> treatment you get - we hate it, too! (grin!)
>
> Yes, we need to stick together and quit being so critical of each other!
> We
> can disagree on stuff but I've seen some downright hateful stuff being
> said
> to people over the years and that's not good.
>
> Take care of yourselves, your dogs, and each other!
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charlene Ota" <caota at hawaii.rr.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
>
>
>>I think you're right, Julie, and people can be very hard on each other
>>about
>> it, too. Sometimes, I've seen dog users really be hard on each other,
>> too,
>> even about their dogs and what they can or can't, will or won't do, and
>> their behavior in public. I wish we gave each other more cedit for what
>> we
>> accomplish than pick on each other for the little things we do different.
>> Sometimes people also forget that some of us have other issues than just
>> blindness to deal with as well that affect our mobility and travel
>> skills.
>> Thinking about it, it strikes me a little funny, we want to be treated as
>> individuals by the sighted world, but we fall into expecting ourselves to
>> all have the same skill set as a group of blind people when in reality,
>> we
>> are all different.
>>
>> I've observed something that's always been interesting to me as a blind
>> person all my life, and that is that sometimes people who have never had
>> vision have some pretty amazing ideas about what vision is. Like, that
>> when
>> a person sees, they see everything. A sighted person, for example,
>> shouldn't
>> trip over something or miss a friend when they're walking down the street
>> or
>> miss the spot on the front of their shirt or whatever you want. Somehow
>> if
>> you can see you can see it all at all times. I haven't seen myself, but I
>> know I've seen this happen in various degrees with different people. If
>> we
>> live long enough and associate with enough people, we find out that
>> sighted
>> people have their shortcomings, too. (smile!)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Steve Johnson
>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 12:11 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
>>
>> Hmmm, that is quite the interesting question Julie. I find myself
>> engaging
>> in conversations with my peers many times indeed surrounding that of
>> travel,
>> but not necessarily judging them, but maybe rather comparing and
>> contrasting
>> our methods of travel when using a guide, cane and then transitioning
>> these
>> skills into our everyday routines. Sometimes, we may also compare our
>> employment and how were we were able to achieve a level of
>> gainful/meaningful employment, while other times maybe our involvement
>> and
>> contributions to the greater blind community. But all in all, and I am
>> looking and thinking of my blind peers primarily involved in our local
>> NFB
>> chapter, we tend not to judge, but feed off of each others strengths, and
>> become a stronger united group by this. It is pretty cool to see how
>> this
>> concept fosters the leadership that we need within the movement, and
>> somehow
>> creates a fairly well-balanced front.
>>
>> Just my immediate thoughts,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 3:27 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
>>
>> Some of the recent discussion got me to thinking about how we, as blind
>> people, perceive independence or who is more capable than who. It seems
>> that we always use travel to judge who has better skills than who. I
>> know
>> we have discussed this before, but I still have no clue why we don't use
>> Braille or cooking or something else to base our judgments on. I'm
>> guilty
>> of it too. I've caught myself thinking if not actually saying that so
>> and
>> so isn't as well adjusted as they could be because they are always
>> needing
>> help to get places.
>>
>> I happen to be a very good traveler with cane or dog. But you know what?
>> I
>> read Braille at about 40 wpm. By any measure that's slow, like
>> incredibly,
>> snails pace slow. But no one has ever said to me, "You know, you should
>> really attend a center where you could get better Braille skills so you
>> could be more independent."
>>
>> Then there is the kitchen...I really like to cook. Generally I'm okay in
>> the kitchen. I cook most meals from scratch. But, getting the meat,
>> especially the chicken, thoroughly cooked is a constant stress for me.
>> I'm
>> frequently freaked out about whether or not there is any pink in the
>> meat.
>> I know the skills. I know how to check nonvisually, but I totally and
>> completely lack chicken confidence.
>>
>> Am I crazy? or don't you think that blind people always judge other
>> blind
>> people on the basis of travel skills and virtually nothing else?
>>
>> thoughts?
>> Julie
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