[nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?

Tue Mar 30 23:27:16 UTC 2010

Tracy,

I like using the dog because I can then walk along with her letting my eyes
roam around taking in the scenery -- however much I can see at the time.
For some reason, using a cane I can't do that.  First time I actually used
Mitzi to guide on a sunny day where I could see colors of houses and
buildings I hadn't even known before on that same route except as gray
blobs, I got totally lost and confused.  While knowing exactly where I wes,
since it was just a straight walk to my favorite store and back.  /lol/
Weirdest sensation I have ever had.  For some reason, though, I don't really
do the same when I'm traveling by cane because, well I don't even know the
because, except that it just doesn't work.  /smile/

The trick then, with using Mitzi while looking around, was to then not start
"using" my vision to watch where we were going and end up screwing with my
dog.  There was quite a period there where I was not convinced that now that
I had her all trained and stuff I was not going to ruin her.  We practiced
in various lighting conditions while I developed the mental self-discipline
to walk with her and not against her, no matter how much I could or could
not see, and now we just go about like we've been doing it all our lives and
know what we're doing.  /lol/

It was one of those periods where I really, really envied totals who could
just be in one state and learn to deal with it and get it over with.  I
don't think comparing whether one set of circumstances makes things easier
or harder is of any value whatsoever.  Just now and then I would like to be
able to spend some real time not screwing myself up.  I'm actually more
relieved and less stressed as my vision becomes less and less distinct over
time.  Then the sun comes out and I go to the park and lift my sunglasses to
see the puppies...

Then I have to spend a few days retraining myself to walk around the house
because I can't see.  At least I don't lose all ability to do anything
anymore.  I just get kinda, well, stupid.  Oh, goodie!  Progress. /grin/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tracy Carcione
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 7:53 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?

Hi Charlene.
There was a guy in my class at TSE who could see a bit. It was interfering
with him trusting his dog, so he wore a sleepshade for a few routes.  It
did seem to help him.
Some of my classmates said that they liked a dog because they could use
their little vision to look for landmarks or whatever, instead of staring
at the ground in front of their feet.  I'd never thought about that
before.
Tracy

> Hey, Linda, I've been busted!  (GRIN!) I know I've been guilty of
> wondering
> why someone with some vision has a dog myself. I think it kind of goes
> back
> to understanding what a person does and doesn't see again. On the other
> hand, I've also defended other people who I know and understand their
> situation who have dogs and have some vision, too. I'm curious if since
> you
> have some vision, if it's beneficial to train with your dog with a
> blindfold, much like when people do cane travel with a blindfold. Does a
> blindfold help you gain the trust of your dog so you don't depend on your
> vision as much? Somehow, I think the dogs seem to have a sense that they
> are
> or aren't needed and I've seen people try to continue to use that little
> bit
> of vision and end up confusing themselves and the dog in some situations.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Linda Gwizdak
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:34 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
>
> Hi all,
> Sometimes I see totals begrudging the partials their sight.  I've seen
> this
> with partials using guide dogs.  the total will say something like, "So
> and
> So has too much vision so they shouldn't be using a guide dog."  I tell
> them
> that thoise of us partials who use dogs have enough of a vision ;loss to
> warrent guide dog use. I have tunnel vision and miss everything that isn't
> exactly where my eye happens to be pointed at - I miss alot that way.
> Also, I have no vision at night or in dark places.  And, the guide dog
> schools won't give a dog to someone with too much sight to use the dog
> properly.
>
> There seems to be this hierarchy much like with blacks.  The lightskinned
> people are somehow "better" than dark skinned people. Partials are also
> "better" than totals.  I saw this among  my friends who wwent to blind
> schools.
>
> I think blind people get judged on mobility skills because that's what the
> public sees most.  they don't see you cook or keep house.  But they see
> you
> on the street.  They think a cane touching stuff means that the person
> can't
> travel well - as if the cane will magically steer one around objects!
> They
> think we are lost when we are listening to the envirnment to gain our
> bearings.
>
> Also, we get judged by the actions of a blind person. Well, so and so lets
> me pet their dog!  Oh, so and so can recognise my voice after hearing it
> once.  Or that so and so can do that - why can't you!  That sort of thing.
>
> As a person who has been "legally blind" all my life I've seen alot.  My
> vision has deteriorated over the years and I've adapted to that. But you
> recent comers to blindness, you come to it after living many years as a
> sighted person without any stigma.  You are right toi take offense to the
> treatment you get - we hate it, too! (grin!)
>
> Yes, we need to stick together and quit being so critical of each other!
> We
> can disagree on stuff but I've seen some downright hateful stuff being
> said
> to people over the years and that's not good.
>
> Take care of yourselves, your dogs, and each other!
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charlene Ota" <caota at hawaii.rr.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
>
>
>>I think you're right, Julie, and people can be very hard on each other
>>about
>> it, too. Sometimes, I've seen dog users really be hard on each other,
>> too,
>> even about their dogs and what they can or can't, will or won't do, and
>> their behavior in public. I wish we gave each other more cedit for what
>> we
>> accomplish than pick on each other for the little things we do
>> different.
>> Sometimes people also forget that some of us have other issues than just
>> blindness to deal with as well that affect our mobility and travel
>> skills.
>> Thinking about it, it strikes me a little funny, we want to be treated
>> as
>> individuals by the sighted world, but we fall into expecting ourselves
>> to
>> all have the same skill set as a group of blind people when in reality,
>> we
>> are all different.
>>
>> I've observed something that's always been interesting to me as a blind
>> person all my life, and that is that sometimes people who have never had
>> vision have some pretty amazing ideas about what vision is. Like, that
>> when
>> a person sees, they see everything. A sighted person, for example,
>> shouldn't
>> trip over something or miss a friend when they're walking down the
>> street
>> or
>> miss the spot on the front of their shirt or whatever you want. Somehow
>> if
>> you can see you can see it all at all times. I haven't seen myself, but
>> I
>> know I've seen this happen in various degrees with different people. If
>> we
>> live long enough and associate with enough people, we find out that
>> sighted
>> people have their shortcomings, too. (smile!)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Steve Johnson
>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 12:11 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
>>
>> Hmmm, that is quite the interesting question Julie.  I find myself
>> engaging
>> in conversations with my peers many times indeed surrounding that of
>> travel,
>> but not necessarily judging them, but maybe rather comparing and
>> contrasting
>> our methods of travel when using a guide, cane and then transitioning
>> these
>> skills into our everyday routines.  Sometimes, we may also compare our
>> employment and how were we were able to achieve a level of
>> gainful/meaningful employment, while other times maybe our involvement
>> and
>> contributions to the greater blind community.  But all in all, and I am
>> looking and thinking of my blind peers primarily involved in our local
>> NFB
>> chapter, we tend not to judge, but feed off of each others strengths,
>> and
>> become a stronger united group by this.  It is pretty cool to see how
>> this
>> concept fosters the leadership that we need within the movement, and
>> somehow
>> creates a fairly well-balanced front.
>>
>> Just my immediate thoughts,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 3:27 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
>>
>> Some of the recent discussion got me to thinking about how we, as blind
>> people, perceive independence or who is more capable than who.   It
>> seems
>> that we always use travel to judge who has better skills than who.  I
>> know
>> we have discussed this before, but I still have no clue why we don't use
>> Braille or cooking or something else to base our judgments on.  I'm
>> guilty
>> of it too.  I've caught myself thinking if not actually saying that so
>> and
>> so isn't as well adjusted as they could be because they are always
>> needing
>> help to get places.
>>
>> I happen to be a very good traveler with cane or dog.  But you know
>> what?
>> I
>> read Braille at about 40 wpm.  By any measure that's slow, like
>> incredibly,
>> snails pace slow.  But no one has ever said to me, "You know, you should
>> really attend a center where you could get better Braille skills so you
>> could be more independent."
>>
>> Then there is the kitchen...I really like to cook.  Generally I'm okay
>> in
>> the kitchen.  I cook most meals from scratch.  But, getting the meat,
>> especially the chicken, thoroughly cooked is a constant stress for me.
>> I'm
>> frequently freaked out about whether or not there is any pink in the
>> meat.
>> I know the skills.  I know how to check nonvisually, but I totally and
>> completely lack chicken confidence.
>>
>> Am I crazy?  or don't you think that blind people always judge other
>> blind
>> people on the basis of travel skills and virtually nothing else?
>>
>> thoughts?
>> Julie
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