[nagdu] "Starting a Dialogue?

Fri May 14 00:41:49 UTC 2010

It was definitely not appropriate for him to make such remarks from
the pulpit. Yes, it was great that they helped you, and he could
easily have mentioned that and thanked the community for coming
together without insulting you.

Even for someone like myself, who *does* fall over often, that would
be an insult to announce it to everyone in the church. Last time I
moved, the people helping me showed me to a chair out of the way and
commanded me to sit and let them do the work because I had already
hurt my back and had fallen down the stairs in my apartment due to
losing my balance while carrying a box that didn't allow me to hold
the railing. So, I *did* fall down all the time. But that doesn't give
someone the right to announce it to the whole world. It's not their
business. He should have simply thanked the congregation for helping a
church member, as he would for helping anyone, and ended there.

Let him know that you were offended gently and ask him not to speak
like that about you...

~Jewel

On 5/13/10, Tamara Smith-Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net> wrote:
> Wow!  Yes, to me it does sound demeaning and offensive, especially given
> that you're feeling overall singled out with all your amazingness for doing
> everyday things and for being so inspiring.  The people saying those things
> may well believe they are being encouraging, even complementary, but the
> underlying attitudes towards blindness -- and towards you as a blind woman
> -- come through as incredibly belittling.  You have my blessing to feel
> highly offendend! /smile/
>
> To be set apart so publicly that way -- and by the leader of the
> congregation, no less! -- is not okay.  It is inherently demeaning and
> humiliating -- even ostracizing.  Your relationship with your past may
> involve teasing on a private level, I don't know.  However, in his public
> position of authority, he is being way out of line.  Especially if, knowing
> him as you seem to, you felt so much negativity from it.
>
> I also picked up on your mentioning your regretting your risk, since you had
> other sources available.  That feeling, that accepting assistance from
> others is a risk is also one I had a hard time learning to deal with...
> Except that I just stopped accepting offers of assistance when I had the
> feeling, even before I had really learned to understand where it was coming
> from and why.  I just went with my gut.  Except for a time or two when I
> went against my gut just to see what would happen....  So I'm pretty much
> over not listening to my intuition there.  /smile/  Some people!
>
> I've been blind -- or perceived as blind by others -- since around 2006, so
> I know how shocking and confusing the change in the behavior of others can
> be.  And how can you deal with it, since it seems to have no basis in
> reality?  For me, it seemed so absurd at first that I found it very funny.
> But it started to add up, and then I realized it was exactly those attitudes
> tha twere standing between my and much-needed resources like high-priced
> adaptive tools and the like.  Or between me and just being left alone to
> live in my apartment without a bunch of extra hassles and being told to go
> get a neighbor to do something for me like put in a fuse when I asked the
> manager where I could get one...  Etc.  Not funny at all!  And really
> frustrating because there is no means for resolving issues by communicating
> -- starting a dialogue -- because they are not coming from the same reality
> you are.  Only they're insistent upon imposing their warped reality on
> you...  Maddening, and I don't think I will ever truly get used to it.
>
> To keep my sanity, I simply had to keep reminding myself that I cannot
> control other people's behavior and attitudes, so I can either just not be
> around them or suck it up and realize that if I have to deal with people
> like that, I'm going to have to work around them.  Still trying to maneuver
> through that one on the adaptive tools thingy, hoping they will give me
> enough documentation that I can take my case out of the system and into
> civil litigation.  Otherwise, by now I just sneer at the idiocy -- inside my
> head at least.  If somebody pushes me too far, I can also just pull out the
> vocabulary and start talking over their head in textbook-ese... /smile/  If
> nothing else, this will cause them to go away and leave me alone.  And maybe
> it will eventually seep into their soggy little brains that blind people are
> not necessarily stupid and illiterate?  To be honest, my goal when I go into
> snooty egghead mode is not to educate in that way but to make it very clear
> to the other person that if they want to keep it up, they will not have a
> good time.  /evil grin/
>
>
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Cathryn Bonnette
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 2:15 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] "Starting a Dialogue?
>
> All:
>
> I am very interested in this discussion since recently my pastor remarked
> from the pulpit that congregation members had helped me with moving, and
> "every box we moved she fell over." Actually, I had not fallen over anything
> the entire day, and I definitely regretted my risk in asking for assistance
> from church members when I had several other sources available.  The
> perception seems to be that I am amazing if I can walk down the street
> without falling, and similar evaluations of my "inspiring" capabilities.  Am
> I crazy, or is this type of comment demeaning and offensive??? The folks
> making comments seem to believe they are being encouraging and appropriate.
> I will confront this issue with this pastor- probably tomorrow evening when
> we generally talk by telephone. I would be most appreciative of thoughts,
> ideas, suggestions from this group since I am relatively new at dealing with
> this issue- becoming blind late in 2005.
>
> Thanks in advance for any comments etc. you may be able to provide.
>
> Cathryn (& Abby)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:44 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] "Starting a Dialogue?
>
> Dear All,
>     I fully appreciate the sentiment that "starting a dialogue" is a far
> better approach to this issue than protesting it. As for the Foundation
> Fighting Blindness, I have written to them on a number of occasions to share
>
> how their view of blindness and the information they disseminate does more
> harm than good to the blind. I also know that, in the case of FFB, some of
> their very involved blind volunteers have also shared their concerns about
> the approach they employ to no avail.
>     In addition to FFB, I have also expressed my concerns to other
> organizations that employ the fear factor in raising funds and "awareness"
> (please notice quotes, as it is not, IMO), including some of the Lighthouses
>
> for the Blind and Prevent Blindness. Their tactics, however, are very
> fruitful for them, helping raise their much-needed revenue. Furthermore,
> they have the support of those in the blind community who feel indebted to
> them for the help they have received, as well as those who have a negative
> view of blindness and cannot see the proverbial "forest through the trees",
> as they generally enjoy the coddling, having been taught by these
> organizations that this is the best they can expect of themselves and should
>
> accept the good will of the public who, after all, "are only trying to
> help"! This brings up another applicable proverb: "The road to hell is paved
>
> with good intentions!"
>     "Starting a dialogue" implies that one has not yet been attempted. Not
> only has it been attempted, the NFB has published information that I have
> shared on this list concerning the dangers of simulation exercises such as
> "Dining in the Dark". Furthermore, as I have also stated on this list, the
> few people who pay $100+ per plate to eat in the dark are not the only ones
> impacted by this inaccurate portrayal of the incapacity of the blind. When
> news releases are circulated by these "experts on blindness" (again, see
> quotes, as they are not!), the media accepts the stereotypes and reports on
> them, not only by reporting on the event, but by believing such inaccuracies
>
> as our compensatory abilities and heightened senses, using such
> misconceptions in future reporting!
>     Whether discrimination is founded in hatred or in pity, it is founded in
>
> the same underlying ignorance. If we are to be seen as equals, we must be
> treated as equals. differential treatment founded in the pitifulness
> simulation exercises promote do nothing to bring us to the point of
> equality. Rather, it relegates us to a second-class status in which we are
> seen as needy! This results in many people seeing me, no matter how
> successful I may be, and saying "There but for the grace of God go I!" They
> are really saying, "Oh, poor man! I am glad I am not like him!" They have no
>
> clue how full and wonderful my life is and, most likely, imagine it to be
> very depressing! After all, "If I were blind, I would kill myself!" How many
>
> times have we all heard this? I, personally, would rather be blind than
> dead! JMHO!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>
>
>> And isn't starting a dialogue a great thing and a good step toward
>> dispelling misperceptions about our abilities
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Linda Gwizdak
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 12:55 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>
>> Hey Margo,
>> Look at it this way - the waitors are all real blind people.  Yes, the
>> sighted diners are bumbling around but they do see how efficient the
>> genuine
>>
>> blind waitors are in serving them!
>>
>> It's all just a gimmick that can start a real dialog on blindness.
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 1:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>
>>
>>> but while they are in the experience, they must think we're so helpless
>>> because they're blundering about trying to figure out how to dine while
>>> blindfolded.  I do not like blindness simulations at all.  Makes us look
>>> helpless.
>>>
>>> margo and arrow
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:31 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I never went to a "Dining in the Dark" event - too expensive! But, I
>>>> know
>>
>>>> some people who worked for it a few years ago here in San diego.  I
>>>> don't
>>
>>>> think it is around anymore as those people have moved on to other jobs.
>>>> They never said that the "Dining in the Dark" was bad towards blindness.
>>>> After all, everyone had fun and had the knowledge that the blindfold
>>>> come
>>
>>>> off or the lights get turned on and they go off to live their sighted
>>>> lives. I see this as a gimmick to fundraise with and I have no problem
>>>> with it. I see no harm in it.  the people know that the waitors are all
>>>> really blind and that is something positive.
>>>>
>>>> As far as a "realistic" experinece for sighted people, I think it is the
>>>> same as doing a "White Cane Safety Day" and having people don blindfolds
>>>> to walk with a cane. It makes people aware that they actually have other
>>>> senses other than sight that really do influence their movement in the
>>>> envirnment.
>>>>
>>>> It probably is like a person who is newly blind and hasn't learned any
>>>> skills yet.
>>>>
>>>> Happy Mother's Day to all you Moms out there in NAGDU-land!
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:07 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I am curious, as we seem to find fault in the dining in the dark
>>>>>experience
>>>>> has any one of us attended one of these events to find out first hand
>>>>> how
>>>>> blindness is presented at these events? I recall the response to
>>>>> letters
>>>>> sent to Florida highlighting the sensory appreciation of food devoid of
>>>>> sight influencing one's taste or preference over what to try and or not
>>>>> try.
>>>>> It would be interesting   to here from someone with first hand
>>>>> experience
>>>>> with attendance at one of these events.
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>>> is
>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Julie J
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 12:28 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>>>
>>>>> The article says it was established in 2008.  I suppose that is in
>>>>> reference
>>>>>
>>>>> to the US school, since the one in Canada has been around for a while.
>>>>> That's pretty recent and could be why no one has heard of it before.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the whole concept of "Dining in the Dark" is not very
>>>>> productive
>>
>>>>> in
>>>>> the long run.  Helpful in raising funds, yes, but pretty low in any
>>>>> meaningful understanding of blindness.
>>>>>
>>>>> JMHO
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 9:06 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why haven't we heard of who? Mira or the Carolina Eye thingy? Mira has
>>>>>> been around a while, but I didn't know they were expanded into the US;
>>>>>> Mira is a guide dog school in Quebec. (They teach their guide dogs
>>>>>> French.)
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 7, 2010, at 7:03 PM, Margo and Arrow wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> got problems with this--dining in the dark and why haven't we heard
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> them before?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Margo and Arrow
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toni Eames"
>>>>>>> <eeames at csufresno.edu>
>>>>>>> To: <gdui-friends at yahoogroups.com>; <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 12:57 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wednesday, May 5, 2010
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> <http://www.thepilot.com/news/2010/may/05/carolina-eye-partners-mira-foundat
>>>>>
>>
> ion/>http://www.thepilot.com/news/2010/may/05/carolina-eye-partners-mira-fou
>>>>> ndation/
>>>>>>>> Mira Foundation USA, a nonprofit dedicated to providing guide dogs
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> children in need, announces Carolina Eye Associates as one of the
>>>>>>>> organization's founding corporate partners.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mira USA is the only nonprofit providing guide dogs to visually
>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> young children in the United States. The two organizations both
>>>>>>>> share
>>>>>>>> the same concern and commitment to providing young children with the
>>>>>>>> resources - and companions - that enable personal independence and
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> freedom of mobility.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Carolina Eye is also the headline sponsor of Mira USA's upcoming
>>>>>>>> "Dining
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in the Dark" fundraiser event taking place May 14 at the Country
>>>>>>>> Club
>>
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> North Carolina in Pinehurst.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Mira USA is an organization close to all our hearts, and we admire
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> passion with which they've tackled the huge job of providing these
>>>>>>>> specially trained guide dogs to young children across our country,"
>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dr. Greg Mincey, of Carolina Eye Associates. "We are proud to be a
>>>>>>>> part
>>>>>>>> of Mira USA's mission for improving the lives of children in need of
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> guide dog and invite other companies and organizations nationwide to
>>>>>>>> join us in supporting their effort."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Dining in the Dark" is one of many community activities held to
>>>>>>>> raise
>>>>>>>> awareness and funds to support the work of Mira USA. The concept
>>>>>>>> began
>>>>>>>> in Germany and has spread to cities where restaurants offer a unique
>>>>>>>> twist on a normal dinner out: guests gather to wine and dine in
>>>>>>>> darkness. With the complete loss of vision - and the resulting
>>>>>>>> heightening of the other four senses - Dining in the Dark will be an
>>>>>>>> extraordinary adventure.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "This is the first time such an event has been presented in North
>>>>>>>> Carolina," said a spokesman. "Reserved seats are filling quickly for
>>>>>>>> this dinner as the community has embraced both the novelty of the
>>>>>>>> event
>>>>>>>> and the mission of Mira USA."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "We are grateful to have the support of the distinguished team at
>>>>>>>> Carolina Eye Associates," said Robert Baillie, Mira USA founder and
>>>>>>>> chairman. "There are over 57,000 visually impaired young children in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> United States and ours is a big undertaking to begin to serve this
>>>>>>>> largely overlooked population by providing specially trained service
>>>>>>>> dogs. I've experienced how the dog can provide a bridge between the
>>>>>>>> child and the community, diminishing the stigma often associated
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> disabilities, and with the support of the public and organizations
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> Carolina Eye, we will give as many children as possible this
>>>>>>>> tremendous
>>>>>>>> gift of independence and companionship."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MIRA Foundation USA Inc. is dedicated to enriching the lives of the
>>>>>>>> largely overlooked population of young children living with
>>>>>>>> disabilities
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> by providing specially trained service dogs. Mira USA was
>>>>>>>> established
>>
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2008 by Robert Baillie. Having suddenly lost his sight and realizing
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> life-changing difference his guide dog Devon made for him, Bob set
>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>> to improve the experience of individuals living with blindness.
>>>>>>>> These
>>>>>>>> special dogs and services are given to children free of charge.
>>>>>>>> Although
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mira USA will provide dogs to all who qualify, its main focus is on
>>>>>>>> children 11 years of age and above. Mira USA believes everyone
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> have access to the tools and resources that enable personal
>>>>>>>> independence
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and freedom of mobility, and invites you to be a part of it. Learn
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> at <http://www.mirausa.org>www.mirausa.org or (910) 944-7757.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Carolina Eye Associates is one of the largest eye-care practices in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Southeast, with eight regional eye-care centers in North and South
>>>>>>>> Carolina. Carolina Eye was established in 1977 in Pinehurst/Southern
>>>>>>>> Pines, N.C., by Dr. Robert Gale Martin and Dr. George Tate Jr. Since
>>>>>>>> then, patients from across the United States and more than 20
>>>>>>>> foreign
>>>>>>>> countries have come to Carolina Eye for eye care needs. For more
>>>>>>>> information, please visit
>>>>>>>> <http://www.carolinaeye.com>www.carolinaeye.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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