[nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Motorized wheelchairs and scooters

Wed Nov 3 17:04:48 UTC 2010

Brenda,

I have RP, so have been where you are and am still working on getting to be
a total.  I live in Oregon, and our state agency is beyond unhelpful, so I
also ended up teaching myself O&M except for some very basic instruction.
As time goes on, I keep hearing from more and more people who are having to
teach themselves because they have no alternative, which is appalling,
really, since we're all paying taxes to have that instruction available and
since going out in the world to cross streets and all while you're still
learning to use the cane effectively and to develop all of the other O&M
skills you need to be safe is so inherently dangerous.  Still, we do what we
need to do, right?  /smile/

I did a lot of what you seem to be doing:  analyze places and scenarios,
think it through, observe, think it through, ask questions like mad of
everyone you can get your hands on...  I was just a couple of years ahead of
all the internet resources and discussion groups we have now to draw on, so
I got a little frantic sometimes.  I was out in the sticks back then and the
only blind person who actually ever left the house, except for a couple of
people in Bend who I never managed to meet, just hear of.

The bright side?  By the time I moved back to civilization and spent some
time learning to walk around the block or down straight hallways with a
certified mobility instructor, I already knew that all those things a blind
person can't do and should never try or even think of doing are quite
possible, since I had already done them and was doing them....  I finally
gave up on learning anything new from said instructor, since I had useful,
constructive things to do with my time.

I had also decided to get a guide dog when the time was right, so when my
state agency sent a report on my mobility skills to the first guide dog
school I had applied to, they reported that I have really great vision which
I use for O&M and everything else (even when I'm doing it in front of them
under sleepshade!), so I don't need a guide dog.  They also managed to get
the point across that I was dingy in the head from insisting the instructors
and staff there were physically abusive and that I was still suffering from
and paying for those injuries and was unhappy about this.  Who knows what a
person who would say such things might do to a dog?

So I cheerfully decided to bypass the rest of the application process with
the other schools I was considering and got me a nice poodle pup who is now
my guide dog because I up and trained her myself.  Due to those injuries I
mentioned, using a cane full time is still a bit crippling, so I absolutely
need a guide dog.  Also, the progressive vision loss plays games with one's
head, so she is a great help in general O&M.  In fact, she was by the end of
our first walk on leash back when she was a 7-month-old bouncy ball of
curls, fresh in from the country.  /smile/  I still practice my cane skills,
including the different O&M aspects of moving with a cane over with a dog,
but the dog makes everything much, much smoother.

Training one's own guide is crazy dangerous and demands crazy good O&M,
since you spend months going about with your trainee watching out for the
safety of both of you while focusing on every move the dog makes so you can
reward and teach and communicate....

Last I heard from the agency, I still need them to teach me basic O&M so I
can go around the block safely by myself without getting lost.  I also
refuse to learn braille, I was surprised to discover.  /lol/  My roommate
was there, and he assures me it is so.  Neither he nor I have managed to
figure out what I'm really trying to accomplish by running my fingers over
bumpy paper for a couple of hours a day or so.  Words form in my head while
I'm doing that, so it keeps me entertained at least.  /grin/

Anyway, I'll be interested to hear about Leader's cane travel program.  I
haven't yet met anyone (that I know of) who has gone through it, but I hope
it works and is the start of a new trend in agency-free mobility
instruction!

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Brenda
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:01 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Motorized wheelchairs and scooters

Rebecca

I do not use my husband as the gold standard for guiding, I just said he 
has almost gotten hit by several motorized vehicles and he can see them 
coming.  Sometimes they go fast and unlike cars go too fast in a 
building.  with the discussion of quiet cars that you cannot hear that I 
have found on this list, I wanted to know how a blind person could avoid 
this unforseen obstacle in a building.  From the answers I got, having a 
guide dog appears to me to be more helpful than a cane.

I am slowly losing the rest of my vision.  As a high partial for many 
years, I was never given the opportunities blind people were as far as 
mobility training, Braille, etc.  I may well have benefited from a guide 
dog years ago, but high partials were never considered to need any type 
of a guide or mobility training.  I had to get by in the world between 
the sighted and the blind.   I have learned to function and accept 
myself as who I am as a high partial.  As I cross over, I have had to 
figure things out on my own as my state rehab agency is very unhelpful, 
and I believe even the mobility instructor thought I only needed a cane 
for identification.  The only mobility training I received is minimal 
street crossing.

I believe a guide dog would suit my needs and  lifestyle, and my husband 
is not a good guide.  Also, I value my independence.  Realizing this, I 
have started using my cane full time and am planning on going to Leader 
Dogs to get accelerated mobility training.  I subscribe to this list to 
learn about guide dog issues as one day I will get a guide dog.  This is 
not an option at this point as our pet dog is unreceptive to other dogs 
and I will not give away a family member.  Besides, it will give me time 
to get proficient with cane mobility.

I will continue to read and learn from this list.  I did learn a lot 
from the replies from Julie and others about my motorized vehicle in 
building question.

Brenda

On 10/29/2010 8:13 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
> Brenda,
> What Julie and others have said are correct.
> What I'd like to know is why you're using your husband as the gold
> standard for guiding. Remember, your husband is there to shop, not
> guide. He may guide you, but that isn't why he's there. Your dog will
> have nothing else to do but guide.
> What I'm getting is that your husband isprobably one heck of a person.
> Still, his experiences don't transolate into your dog's job.
> Also know that if you don't want to use your dog in this environment,
> you don't have to. Many of us use our canes when we feel we need to. We
> all have different scenarios when we do this, this may be yours. Nothing
> wrong with that.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Julie J
> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 4:02 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: [nagdu] Motorized wheelchairs and scooters
>
> Brenda,
>
> the dog will back up or move appropriately to keep you from contacting
> any
> moving object including wheelchairs, shopping carts, bicyclists,
> skateboarders, and the like.
>
> I have always felt like people should take some responsibility for where
>
> they are and what is in their intended path.  Saying "excuse me" would
> be
> nice, but if you've ever shopped at Wal-Mart on Saturday morning...well,
>
> I've learned a new appreciation of Monty's quick reflexes. *smile*
>
> HTH
> Julie
>
>
>
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