[nagdu] Thankyou Re: EXTERNAL:Re: Motorized wheelchairs and scooters

GARY STEEVES rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca
Wed Nov 3 19:05:46 UTC 2010


Hi Brenda:

Ironically, one of the reasons I picked now as the time to get my dog is because I do have some residual vision but it look slike it will get worse. I do need a cane (and/or a dog) but I can see things to help me work to build up trust with the dog as well as helping the dog make the right decision therefore using positive re-enforcement to help him learn.

I do have very good O&M skills too since I've been using a cane since I was 18 and as my sight has declined my brain has forgot that we shouldn't be walking at the same speeds as I used to. This means, in many situations, I get around as fast with a cane as I do with a dog. The mobility aspects of the dog were only a part of my decision. My girlfriend really loves dogs so this was a way we could have a dog in the family that we could take where ever we went and that could also be a great help to me as well.
All but one of the 8 in my class had more sight than I. The one fellow was totally blind and only for the past 5 years so he was on a steep learning curve and really enjoying his dog.

Keep up the good fight.

Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: Brenda <bjnite at windstream.net>
Date: Wednesday, November 3, 2010 11:27 am
Subject: [nagdu] Thankyou Re: EXTERNAL:Re: Motorized wheelchairs and scooters
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>

> Hi Tami
> 
> Thank you for the very informative and encouraging post as in I 
> don't 
> feel so alone after reading it.  Your response made me feel 
> better about 
> having some remaining vision yet feeling I would benefit from a 
> guide 
> dog.  I am thinking the attitudes about partials using 
> canes and guide 
> dogs is changing for the better.    When I was a 
> high partial but yet 
> still needed verbal cues from a downhill ski guide, I was told I 
> didn't 
> need someone to call my turns.  Hence I have been afraid to 
> ask for help 
> even though the NFB encourages people not to rely on their 
> remaining 
> vision.
> 
> I am just curious, when your State agency misrepresented your 
> situation, 
> were you not able to talk to the guide dog schools and explain 
> your 
> side.  Did you have documentation of the State Agency's 
> treatment of 
> you?  I am a bit of an undesirable with my current state 
> agency for 
> trying to get my needs met.  When I apply to Leader for O&m 
> and later 
> for a guide dog, I will not use them as a reference.  In my 
> research 
> into guide dog schools, you need a form from your doctor and eye 
> doctor 
> and don't even need to bother with the State.  I love it 
> that I am 
> finding that guide dog schools don't seem to get funding from 
> the State 
> or sometimes not even from United Way and are still able to 
> provide 
> services.  As for O&M, I think Leader is the only one not 
> charging for 
> O&M training which can be very expensive out-of-pocket.
> 
> One reason I like this list is because I am watching to learn 
> about 
> other teams like you where the human has some remaining vision.
> 
> Brenda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/3/2010 1:04 PM, Tamara Smith-Kinney wrote:
> > Brenda,
> >
> > I have RP, so have been where you are and am still working on 
> getting to be
> > a total.  I live in Oregon, and our state agency is 
> beyond unhelpful, so I
> > also ended up teaching myself O&M except for some very basic 
> instruction.> As time goes on, I keep hearing from more and more 
> people who are having to
> > teach themselves because they have no alternative, which is 
> appalling,> really, since we're all paying taxes to have that 
> instruction available and
> > since going out in the world to cross streets and all while 
> you're still
> > learning to use the cane effectively and to develop all of the 
> other O&M
> > skills you need to be safe is so inherently dangerous.  
> Still, we do what we
> > need to do, right?  /smile/
> >
> > I did a lot of what you seem to be doing:  analyze places 
> and scenarios,
> > think it through, observe, think it through, ask questions 
> like mad of
> > everyone you can get your hands on...  I was just a 
> couple of years ahead of
> > all the internet resources and discussion groups we have now 
> to draw on, so
> > I got a little frantic sometimes.  I was out in the 
> sticks back then and the
> > only blind person who actually ever left the house, except for 
> a couple of
> > people in Bend who I never managed to meet, just hear of.
> >
> > The bright side?  By the time I moved back to 
> civilization and spent some
> > time learning to walk around the block or down straight 
> hallways with a
> > certified mobility instructor, I already knew that all those 
> things a blind
> > person can't do and should never try or even think of doing 
> are quite
> > possible, since I had already done them and was doing 
> them....  I finally
> > gave up on learning anything new from said instructor, since I 
> had useful,
> > constructive things to do with my time.
> >
> > I had also decided to get a guide dog when the time was right, 
> so when my
> > state agency sent a report on my mobility skills to the first 
> guide dog
> > school I had applied to, they reported that I have really 
> great vision which
> > I use for O&M and everything else (even when I'm doing it in 
> front of them
> > under sleepshade!), so I don't need a guide dog.  They 
> also managed to get
> > the point across that I was dingy in the head from insisting 
> the instructors
> > and staff there were physically abusive and that I was still 
> suffering from
> > and paying for those injuries and was unhappy about 
> this.  Who knows what a
> > person who would say such things might do to a dog?
> >
> > So I cheerfully decided to bypass the rest of the application 
> process with
> > the other schools I was considering and got me a nice poodle 
> pup who is now
> > my guide dog because I up and trained her myself.  Due to 
> those injuries I
> > mentioned, using a cane full time is still a bit crippling, so 
> I absolutely
> > need a guide dog.  Also, the progressive vision loss 
> plays games with one's
> > head, so she is a great help in general O&M.  In fact, 
> she was by the end of
> > our first walk on leash back when she was a 7-month-old bouncy 
> ball of
> > curls, fresh in from the country.  /smile/  I still 
> practice my cane skills,
> > including the different O&M aspects of moving with a cane over 
> with a dog,
> > but the dog makes everything much, much smoother.
> >
> > Training one's own guide is crazy dangerous and demands crazy 
> good O&M,
> > since you spend months going about with your trainee watching 
> out for the
> > safety of both of you while focusing on every move the dog 
> makes so you can
> > reward and teach and communicate....
> >
> > Last I heard from the agency, I still need them to teach me 
> basic O&M so I
> > can go around the block safely by myself without getting 
> lost.  I also
> > refuse to learn braille, I was surprised to discover.  
> /lol/  My roommate
> > was there, and he assures me it is so.  Neither he nor I 
> have managed to
> > figure out what I'm really trying to accomplish by running my 
> fingers over
> > bumpy paper for a couple of hours a day or so.  Words 
> form in my head while
> > I'm doing that, so it keeps me entertained at least.  /grin/
> >
> > Anyway, I'll be interested to hear about Leader's cane travel 
> program.  I
> > haven't yet met anyone (that I know of) who has gone through 
> it, but I hope
> > it works and is the start of a new trend in agency-free mobility
> > instruction!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tami Smith-Kinney
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> > Of Brenda
> > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:01 AM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Motorized wheelchairs and scooters
> >
> > Rebecca
> >
> > I do not use my husband as the gold standard for guiding, I 
> just said he
> > has almost gotten hit by several motorized vehicles and he can 
> see them
> > coming.  Sometimes they go fast and unlike cars go too 
> fast in a
> > building.  with the discussion of quiet cars that you 
> cannot hear that I
> > have found on this list, I wanted to know how a blind person 
> could avoid
> > this unforseen obstacle in a building.  From the answers 
> I got, having a
> > guide dog appears to me to be more helpful than a cane.
> >
> > I am slowly losing the rest of my vision.  As a high 
> partial for many
> > years, I was never given the opportunities blind people were 
> as far as
> > mobility training, Braille, etc.  I may well have 
> benefited from a guide
> > dog years ago, but high partials were never considered to need 
> any type
> > of a guide or mobility training.  I had to get by in the 
> world between
> > the sighted and the blind.   I have learned to 
> function and accept
> > myself as who I am as a high partial.  As I cross over, I 
> have had to
> > figure things out on my own as my state rehab agency is very 
> unhelpful,> and I believe even the mobility instructor thought I 
> only needed a cane
> > for identification.  The only mobility training I 
> received is minimal
> > street crossing.
> >
> > I believe a guide dog would suit my needs and  lifestyle, 
> and my husband
> > is not a good guide.  Also, I value my 
> independence.  Realizing this, I
> > have started using my cane full time and am planning on going 
> to Leader
> > Dogs to get accelerated mobility training.  I subscribe 
> to this list to
> > learn about guide dog issues as one day I will get a guide 
> dog.  This is
> > not an option at this point as our pet dog is unreceptive to 
> other dogs
> > and I will not give away a family member.  Besides, it 
> will give me time
> > to get proficient with cane mobility.
> >
> > I will continue to read and learn from this list.  I did 
> learn a lot
> > from the replies from Julie and others about my motorized 
> vehicle in
> > building question.
> >
> > Brenda
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/29/2010 8:13 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
> >> Brenda,
> >> What Julie and others have said are correct.
> >> What I'd like to know is why you're using your husband as the gold
> >> standard for guiding. Remember, your husband is there to 
> shop, not
> >> guide. He may guide you, but that isn't why he's there. Your 
> dog will
> >> have nothing else to do but guide.
> >> What I'm getting is that your husband isprobably one heck of 
> a person.
> >> Still, his experiences don't transolate into your dog's job.
> >> Also know that if you don't want to use your dog in this 
> environment,>> you don't have to. Many of us use our canes when 
> we feel we need to. We
> >> all have different scenarios when we do this, this may be 
> yours. Nothing
> >> wrong with that.
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Julie J
> >> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 4:02 PM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: [nagdu] Motorized wheelchairs and scooters
> >>
> >> Brenda,
> >>
> >> the dog will back up or move appropriately to keep you from 
> contacting>> any
> >> moving object including wheelchairs, shopping carts, bicyclists,
> >> skateboarders, and the like.
> >>
> >> I have always felt like people should take some 
> responsibility for where
> >>
> >> they are and what is in their intended path.  Saying 
> "excuse me" would
> >> be
> >> nice, but if you've ever shopped at Wal-Mart on Saturday 
> morning...well,>>
> >> I've learned a new appreciation of Monty's quick reflexes. *smile*
> >>
> >> HTH
> >> Julie
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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