[nagdu] Thankyou Re: EXTERNAL:Re: Motorized wheelchairs and scooters
Lyn Gwizdak
linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Fri Nov 5 15:40:05 UTC 2010
Hi Brenda,
I, too, have some remaining vision and I've been a guide dog user for most
of the last 35 years!
You know what - do what YOU think is appropriate for yourself. The
potential school you apply to will evaluate you during your home visit. The
GUIDE DOG SCHOOL will be the one to evaluate if a guide dog could help your
mobility. If needed at the school, you can get your training under
blindfold if the instructor sees that you are trying to use your vision and
counteracting the dog's decisions. It is very workable to use your vision
AND allow the dog to do its job! I do this!
When I travel, I can use my vision to find places I want to go to and let
the dog take me around things. I can walk with my head up and not down
looking at where I'm putting my feet. I can have the freedom to look around
at my envirnment while walking because I know that Landon will watch out for
bad sidewalk, things in oour path, people in our path, etc.
None of the schools in the US get any government funding - they all rely on
donations and money left to them in people's wills. Some schools are
heavily supported by groups like Lions International as Leader Dogs is.
But, you don't need to bother with State Rehab.
As long as you can demonstrate that you have mobility skills and are active
and travel independently, the guide dog school will determnine your
eligibility.
Please tell us about the Leader Dog's mobility classes - I've heard several
people mention this on the lists. And good luck to you in exploring if a
guide dog is for you. Any questions - ask away! That's what we're here for!
LOL!
Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brenda" <bjnite at windstream.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:25 AM
Subject: [nagdu] Thankyou Re: EXTERNAL:Re: Motorized wheelchairs and
scooters
> Hi Tami
>
> Thank you for the very informative and encouraging post as in I don't feel
> so alone after reading it. Your response made me feel better about having
> some remaining vision yet feeling I would benefit from a guide dog. I am
> thinking the attitudes about partials using canes and guide dogs is
> changing for the better. When I was a high partial but yet still needed
> verbal cues from a downhill ski guide, I was told I didn't need someone to
> call my turns. Hence I have been afraid to ask for help even though the
> NFB encourages people not to rely on their remaining vision.
>
> I am just curious, when your State agency misrepresented your situation,
> were you not able to talk to the guide dog schools and explain your side.
> Did you have documentation of the State Agency's treatment of you? I am a
> bit of an undesirable with my current state agency for trying to get my
> needs met. When I apply to Leader for O&m and later for a guide dog, I
> will not use them as a reference. In my research into guide dog schools,
> you need a form from your doctor and eye doctor and don't even need to
> bother with the State. I love it that I am finding that guide dog schools
> don't seem to get funding from the State or sometimes not even from United
> Way and are still able to provide services. As for O&M, I think Leader is
> the only one not charging for O&M training which can be very expensive
> out-of-pocket.
>
> One reason I like this list is because I am watching to learn about other
> teams like you where the human has some remaining vision.
>
> Brenda
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/3/2010 1:04 PM, Tamara Smith-Kinney wrote:
>> Brenda,
>>
>> I have RP, so have been where you are and am still working on getting to
>> be
>> a total. I live in Oregon, and our state agency is beyond unhelpful, so
>> I
>> also ended up teaching myself O&M except for some very basic instruction.
>> As time goes on, I keep hearing from more and more people who are having
>> to
>> teach themselves because they have no alternative, which is appalling,
>> really, since we're all paying taxes to have that instruction available
>> and
>> since going out in the world to cross streets and all while you're still
>> learning to use the cane effectively and to develop all of the other O&M
>> skills you need to be safe is so inherently dangerous. Still, we do what
>> we
>> need to do, right? /smile/
>>
>> I did a lot of what you seem to be doing: analyze places and scenarios,
>> think it through, observe, think it through, ask questions like mad of
>> everyone you can get your hands on... I was just a couple of years ahead
>> of
>> all the internet resources and discussion groups we have now to draw on,
>> so
>> I got a little frantic sometimes. I was out in the sticks back then and
>> the
>> only blind person who actually ever left the house, except for a couple
>> of
>> people in Bend who I never managed to meet, just hear of.
>>
>> The bright side? By the time I moved back to civilization and spent some
>> time learning to walk around the block or down straight hallways with a
>> certified mobility instructor, I already knew that all those things a
>> blind
>> person can't do and should never try or even think of doing are quite
>> possible, since I had already done them and was doing them.... I finally
>> gave up on learning anything new from said instructor, since I had
>> useful,
>> constructive things to do with my time.
>>
>> I had also decided to get a guide dog when the time was right, so when my
>> state agency sent a report on my mobility skills to the first guide dog
>> school I had applied to, they reported that I have really great vision
>> which
>> I use for O&M and everything else (even when I'm doing it in front of
>> them
>> under sleepshade!), so I don't need a guide dog. They also managed to
>> get
>> the point across that I was dingy in the head from insisting the
>> instructors
>> and staff there were physically abusive and that I was still suffering
>> from
>> and paying for those injuries and was unhappy about this. Who knows what
>> a
>> person who would say such things might do to a dog?
>>
>> So I cheerfully decided to bypass the rest of the application process
>> with
>> the other schools I was considering and got me a nice poodle pup who is
>> now
>> my guide dog because I up and trained her myself. Due to those injuries
>> I
>> mentioned, using a cane full time is still a bit crippling, so I
>> absolutely
>> need a guide dog. Also, the progressive vision loss plays games with
>> one's
>> head, so she is a great help in general O&M. In fact, she was by the end
>> of
>> our first walk on leash back when she was a 7-month-old bouncy ball of
>> curls, fresh in from the country. /smile/ I still practice my cane
>> skills,
>> including the different O&M aspects of moving with a cane over with a
>> dog,
>> but the dog makes everything much, much smoother.
>>
>> Training one's own guide is crazy dangerous and demands crazy good O&M,
>> since you spend months going about with your trainee watching out for the
>> safety of both of you while focusing on every move the dog makes so you
>> can
>> reward and teach and communicate....
>>
>> Last I heard from the agency, I still need them to teach me basic O&M so
>> I
>> can go around the block safely by myself without getting lost. I also
>> refuse to learn braille, I was surprised to discover. /lol/ My roommate
>> was there, and he assures me it is so. Neither he nor I have managed to
>> figure out what I'm really trying to accomplish by running my fingers
>> over
>> bumpy paper for a couple of hours a day or so. Words form in my head
>> while
>> I'm doing that, so it keeps me entertained at least. /grin/
>>
>> Anyway, I'll be interested to hear about Leader's cane travel program. I
>> haven't yet met anyone (that I know of) who has gone through it, but I
>> hope
>> it works and is the start of a new trend in agency-free mobility
>> instruction!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Brenda
>> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:01 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Motorized wheelchairs and scooters
>>
>> Rebecca
>>
>> I do not use my husband as the gold standard for guiding, I just said he
>> has almost gotten hit by several motorized vehicles and he can see them
>> coming. Sometimes they go fast and unlike cars go too fast in a
>> building. with the discussion of quiet cars that you cannot hear that I
>> have found on this list, I wanted to know how a blind person could avoid
>> this unforseen obstacle in a building. From the answers I got, having a
>> guide dog appears to me to be more helpful than a cane.
>>
>> I am slowly losing the rest of my vision. As a high partial for many
>> years, I was never given the opportunities blind people were as far as
>> mobility training, Braille, etc. I may well have benefited from a guide
>> dog years ago, but high partials were never considered to need any type
>> of a guide or mobility training. I had to get by in the world between
>> the sighted and the blind. I have learned to function and accept
>> myself as who I am as a high partial. As I cross over, I have had to
>> figure things out on my own as my state rehab agency is very unhelpful,
>> and I believe even the mobility instructor thought I only needed a cane
>> for identification. The only mobility training I received is minimal
>> street crossing.
>>
>> I believe a guide dog would suit my needs and lifestyle, and my husband
>> is not a good guide. Also, I value my independence. Realizing this, I
>> have started using my cane full time and am planning on going to Leader
>> Dogs to get accelerated mobility training. I subscribe to this list to
>> learn about guide dog issues as one day I will get a guide dog. This is
>> not an option at this point as our pet dog is unreceptive to other dogs
>> and I will not give away a family member. Besides, it will give me time
>> to get proficient with cane mobility.
>>
>> I will continue to read and learn from this list. I did learn a lot
>> from the replies from Julie and others about my motorized vehicle in
>> building question.
>>
>> Brenda
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/29/2010 8:13 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
>>> Brenda,
>>> What Julie and others have said are correct.
>>> What I'd like to know is why you're using your husband as the gold
>>> standard for guiding. Remember, your husband is there to shop, not
>>> guide. He may guide you, but that isn't why he's there. Your dog will
>>> have nothing else to do but guide.
>>> What I'm getting is that your husband isprobably one heck of a person.
>>> Still, his experiences don't transolate into your dog's job.
>>> Also know that if you don't want to use your dog in this environment,
>>> you don't have to. Many of us use our canes when we feel we need to. We
>>> all have different scenarios when we do this, this may be yours. Nothing
>>> wrong with that.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Julie J
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 4:02 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: [nagdu] Motorized wheelchairs and scooters
>>>
>>> Brenda,
>>>
>>> the dog will back up or move appropriately to keep you from contacting
>>> any
>>> moving object including wheelchairs, shopping carts, bicyclists,
>>> skateboarders, and the like.
>>>
>>> I have always felt like people should take some responsibility for where
>>>
>>> they are and what is in their intended path. Saying "excuse me" would
>>> be
>>> nice, but if you've ever shopped at Wal-Mart on Saturday morning...well,
>>>
>>> I've learned a new appreciation of Monty's quick reflexes. *smile*
>>>
>>> HTH
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
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