[nagdu] Some clarification really neededRe: Full Body Scanning Machines

Cindy Ray cindyray at gmail.com
Sat Nov 20 21:43:39 UTC 2010 

Well, Ginger said that this is because there is not room for it to do that width--dog and person--same being true with the wheelchair.


On Nov 20, 2010, at 3:38 PM, William ODonnell wrote:

> Why are guide dog users not able to use the full body machines?  Why does the TSA state this?
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Sat, 11/20/10, Brenda <bjnite at windstream.net> wrote:
> 
>> From: Brenda <bjnite at windstream.net>
>> Subject: [nagdu] Some clarification really neededRe: Full Body Scanning Machines
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 3:49 PM
>> Hi List
>> I could tolerate the full body scanner, but I really don't
>> want to get 
>> groped/patted down in the manner it is currently
>> done.  I am considering 
>> getting a guide dog when other personal issues are
>> resolved, but the 
>> thought that all people with service animals will not be
>> using the full 
>> body scanner bothers me.   I am totally
>> against the patdown and there is 
>> no guarantee I would not be the lucky random winner even
>> with no metal 
>> on my person.
>> 
>> Are there clear rules somewhere that we can read and print
>> out for 
>> travel?  Is there any provision for a situation like
>> described above?  
>> If they say I can't use the full body scanner and I refuse
>> a patdown 
>> what happens then?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Brenda
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/20/2010 3:09 PM, Cathryn Bonnette wrote:
>>> Hi Ginger,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the clarification. We'll be ready for the
>> same ole thing then!
>>> 
>>> Blessings,
>>> 
>>> Cathryn (&  Abby)
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf
>>> Of Ginger Kutsch
>>> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 10:32 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>> Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>> 
>>> Dear Cathryn,
>>> 
>>> The TSA will not allow people traveling with service
>> animals to
>>> use the Whole Body Imaging machines.
>>> 
>>> If you have a service animal, you must use the metal
>> detector as
>>> you have in the past. You do not have a choice.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Ginger
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette
>>> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 8:22 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>> Guide Dog
>>> Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>> 
>>> Hi Gary,
>>> 
>>> Since I posted someone else pointed out that we won't
>> be able to
>>> leave the dogs on a leash due to the full scanner.
>> That means we
>>> need to work with them to sit/stay even off leash.
>> I've started
>>> reinforcing that already with Abby so we will be
>> ready. It seems
>>> to me to be a gradual change to add into normal
>> obedience. I was
>>> using a short stay command with a long leash, so now I
>> just
>>> unclip the leash and step away as though the leash was
>> still in
>>> place, use the hand gesture, step back to my dog, and
>> praise her
>>> like crazy for doing such a great job of staying. When
>> we fly
>>> next, she'll be prepared to sit/stay for a short time
>> while I
>>> step through a scanner, then come to me when I call
>> her even
>>> though there is no restraining leash.
>>> Well, that is my plan.  Interested in your
>> thoughts as well.
>>> 
>>> Blessings,
>>> 
>>> Cathryn (&  Abby)
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of GARY STEEVES
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 2:27 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>> Guide Dog
>>> Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi:
>>> 
>>> I just flew with Bogart a couple of weeks ago.
>> Considering that
>>> my only other flight was back from guide school we did
>> great.
>>> Okay, I'll be honest.
>>> I was actually surprised about how good Bogart was. We
>> don't work
>>> on staying as much as we should but I got him to the
>> portal (as
>>> someone called it), got him to sit and told him to
>> stay while I
>>> walked through the metal detector.
>>> Once done, with no beeping, I called him and he came
>> right to me.
>>> So this helps me realize how important it is to work
>> on our
>>> common commands to keep him strong at them.
>>> 
>>> At xmas I'll be flying to one of the airports where
>> the body
>>> scanners are being testede in canada so we'll see if
>> that is any
>>> differnt.
>>> 
>>> Gary
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Cathryn Bonnette<cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>>> Date: Thursday, November 18, 2010 9:47 am
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>> Guide Dog
>>> Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> 
>>>> Hi Mike and All -
>>>> 
>>>> Can't resist chiming in here. True, you don't
>> choose how they
>>> proceed,
>>>> but you definitely have influence. Are these TSA
>> agents looking
>>> for
>>>> ways to hassle blind people? Generally no. Also,
>> they have a
>>> job to
>>>> do, and they are busy. Is there a reason you
>> cannot trust your
>>> dog to
>>>> sit and stay on command for the short time it
>> takes you to walk
>>>> through a scanner? If your answer is "yes", it is
>> time to go
>>> back to
>>>> the daily obedience 101 that most training
>> programs suggest
>>> because
>>>> SIT and Stay are very basic commands your dog
>> should perform
>>> despite
>>>> distractions. Your task is to hold the long leash
>> low so it
>>> doesn't
>>>> set off the alarm as you walk through without your
>> dog.  As
>>> many of
>>>> you have already enjoyed sharing, our dogs
>> absolutely love
>>> those
>>>> patdowns, and want more of
>> them!   Besides conducting
>>>> ourselves as adult
>>>> professionals who know what we're doing, That is
>> another great
>>> way to
>>>> connect with the agents who otherwise are having a
>> stressful,
>>> or
>>>> boring day depending on the alert level.
>>>> It doesn't have to be traumatic- it can be a way
>> to show off.
>>>> What do you
>>>> think?
>>>> 
>>>> Cathryn (&  Abby, also a lover of
>> patdowns)
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Michael Hingson
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 11:27 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
>> of Guide Dog
>>> Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>>> 
>>>> You may not have the choice.  They decide how
>> to examine you.
>>>> 
>>>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>>    "Speaking with Vision"
>>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>>> (415) 827-4084
>>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>>> To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking
>> topics and
>>> speaking
>>>> availability please visit www.michaelhingson.com
>> Thunder Dog is
>>> now
>>>> availe for early ordering on Amazon!!!
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-
>>>> 
>>> 
>> Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289090352&sr
>>> =1-3
>>>> 
>>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Margo and Arrow
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 7:52 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
>> of Guide Dog
>>> Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>>> 
>>>> I would not use the scanner.  I trust my dog
>> but want to be
>>> where he
>>>> can see
>>>> 
>>>> me and I can speak to him.
>>>> 
>>>> Margo and Arrow
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Michael Hingson"<mhingson at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
>> of Guide Dog
>>>> Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 11:29 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Margo is correct in that holding a long leash may
>> not set off
>>> the
>>>> traditional detector so long as the leash stays
>> below the
>>> scanning
>>>> element.
>>>> It will NOT work with the full body scanner
>> system.  If you are
>>> chosen
>>>> for a more detailed scan and can either use the
>> body scanner or
>>> are
>>>> subjected to a more rigorous patdown, you could
>> only use the
>>> body
>>>> scanner if you trust your dog to stay while you
>> independently
>>> go into
>>>> the scanner.
>>>> 
>>>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>>    "Speaking with Vision"
>>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>>> (415) 827-4084
>>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>>> To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking
>> topics and
>>> speaking
>>>> availability please visit www.michaelhingson.com
>> Thunder Dog is
>>> now
>>>> availe for early ordering on Amazon!!!
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-
>>>> 
>>> 
>> Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289090352&sr
>>> =1-3
>>>> 
>>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Margo and Arrow
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:23 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
>> of Guide Dog
>>> Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>>> 
>>>> Cathryn, that will work for metal detectors but
>> probably not
>>> for the
>>>> full body scans--that's a different thing.
>>>> 
>>>> margo and Arrow
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Cathryn Bonnette"<cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
>> of Guide Dog
>>>> Users'"<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 9:37 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> All:
>>>>> 
>>>>> One approach is to put your guide on a long
>> leash sitting at
>>>> the beginning
>>>>> of the walk thru metal detector/scanner. After
>> you walk
>>>> through without
>>>>> your
>>>>> dog holding the leash, you give the "Come"
>> command to
>>>> demonstrate that you
>>>>> alone did not set off the detector, and that
>> the dog harness
>>>> does. Then
>>>>> one
>>>>> of the transit authority staff will wand the
>> dog or pat
>>>> him/her down while
>>>>> you stay close and keep your hands on the dog.
>> Done deal. It
>>>> is fairly
>>>>> simple, and shouldn't change that much with
>> full scanners.
>>>>> At least that is my experience.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cathryn (&  Abby)
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nagdu-
>>>> bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf
>>>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:48 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National
>> Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning
>> Machines
>>>>> 
>>>>> Don't only selected victims, I mean,
>> passengers, get the
>>> full-body
>>>>> radiation treatment? Maybe you won't get
>> picked.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Does anyone know what the rules are for
>> blind people with
>>>> canes or dogs
>>>>>> now
>>>>>> that the full body machine has been
>> installed in most
>>>> airports? What do
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> do with the dog while we're being scanned?
>> or do we have to
>>>> submit to the
>>>>>> more intrusive patdown?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Toni
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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